Can I live with a 50mm 'Cron f2?

[BradS]

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Can you "live with" a Summicron? First world problem that only the super privileged could even conceive of asking.

A Leica M-A and 50mm Summicron...that's a $7500+ camera-lens combo. My grocery budget is $100 a week. You can do the arithmetic.

If you "miss a shot", it not the camera-lens that's the problem.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

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[ktmrider2]

I have too many fifty:  a LTM Summicron V1, latest Summicron V in chrome, and a 50 f1.2 Nokton.  I am seriously thinking about trimming the herd and selling the CronV and a M2 and MP240.  I need to compare the V1 and V5 to see how similar they are.  Also need to get rid of a 35.  Had the Summicron V for over 25 years so there is a bit of nostalgia attached to it.  Honestly, to me a 50 is a 50 as I don't really care about things like bokeh.

 

[cboy]

2c. As much as the cron is a great general purpose lens i think there other lens that do better specifically on certain applications. On portraits i found the rendering somewhat harsh with the cron. I think the lux would be better suited for portraits imho.

For myself i can live with the cron as im geared towards street photography. Using the right gear for the job.

All the best.

 

[spydrxx]

2 hours ago, cboy said:

2c. As much as the cron is a great general purpose lens i think there other lens that do better specifically on certain applications. On portraits i found the rendering somewhat harsh with the cron. I think the lux would be better suited for portraits imho.

For myself i can live with the cron as im geared towards street photography. Using the right gear for the job.

All the best.

 

The Cron indeed can be harsh for female portraits, in the sense that it can be unflattering to show every wrinkle and pore. However there are solutions to easily minimize this effect, either by aperture choice and lighting, or in post processing. Personally I've never liked a 50 for portraits anyway, much preferring a 75 or 90.

[Danner]

12 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

...  Honestly, to me a 50 is a 50 as I don't really care about things like bokeh.

 

Blaspheme!!!

 

just kidding 🙂

[ktmrider2]

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When I was a professional photographer back in the early 1970's, bokeh had not been invented yet.  We bought lenses based on things like focal length, aperture and ergonomics.  We knew f2 was probably better for portraits than f11 or f16 depending on the background.  And a 6mm fisheye attached to a Nikon F probably was not too suitable for taking portraits.  As a working newspaper photographer, it was f8 and be there.  

I have a 50 Summicron Version 1 which came with my 3f.  It has recently been CLA'ed by DAG and I have a chrome 50 Summicron Version 5.  I just ordered a LTM adopter to use the V1 on my film M's and after I shoot both on the digital Leica, if they produce similar images I will be selling the Version 5.  And except for the size, I have been impressed with the images from the 50f1.2 Nokton.

Honestly, I find all the debate on Leitz vs Voigtlander vs Zeiss lenses to be minutia in the extreme.  I own and use all of them.  If one is really concerned about a good image, put the camera on a tripod and shoot 6x6 at least.  I am pretty sure just using a tripod would improve the image much more then using a $10000 Leica lens over a $1000 Voigtlander product.  But reality would not be fun as it would eliminate most of the debate here and over on rangefinder forum.

Edited August 11, 2021 by ktmrider2

[Muso]

On 8/11/2021 at 4:35 PM, ktmrider2 said:

When I was a professional photographer back in the early 1970's, bokeh had not been invented yet.

...

Same for me, when I first picked up a camera in the mid '70s.  Ooooonly the Japanese* could obsess over a lens because of what is OUT of focus!  And then come up with a name for it:  Bokeh.

Now we're all stuck with it.  "Aahh, creamy bokeh!"  Hahahahaha.

 

 

*I tease them because I love them lol.  

[otto.f]

On 7/30/2021 at 6:35 AM, kivis said:

Am I going to lose a lot of shots in low light w/o an F1.4 lens?

No but I liked the 50lux asph better on film, in my memory the lux has better contrast on F2 than the cron. 

[Sailronin]

Summicron all the way. The Summilux is heavier and Tri-X has plenty of latitude to make up for a stop in lens speed.

[Ouroboros]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:35 AM, kivis said:

Can I live with a 50mm 'Cron f2 on my M-A instead of a "lux f1.4? I shoot strictly with 400 ISO film. Am I going to lose a lot of shots in low light w/o an F1.4 lens?

In low light with 400iso film you will miss images with either lens without using a tripod.

My own preference is for summicrons (I have five: 28,35,50,75 &90) and have never found myself wanting f1.4 in any focal length. 

The only 'fast' lens I have is a CV 50mm Heliar Classic f1.5, which I use primarily for it's character and not because of it's maximum aperture.

If you're planning on having only one lens for your M-A  I think a summilux might be the way to go for you, if only for a good night's sleep! 

[otto.f]

If you do only B&W the surplus value of the lux asph is less, considering what you pay for it. 

[cboy]

Im thinking the new voigtlander 'dream' 50mm f1 will give the lux a run for its money.  imo the lux is getting long in the tooth and requires an update. Whilst its best at f1.4 its bokeh is not that great stopped down.

The non 50 cron is the longest service optical formula in leicas lineup still in production. That alone is reason for how good it is. And if a person say its inadequate then it certainly not the lenses fault.

 

[ppkarppi]

On 7/30/2021 at 7:35 AM, kivis said:

Can I live with a 50mm 'Cron f2 on my M-A instead of a "lux f1.4? I shoot strictly with 400 ISO film. Am I going to lose a lot of shots in low light w/o an F1.4 lens?

If your personal photography ambitions allow so, then you can. Nobody else here or elsewhere can tell you if you can or can not.

[Alan Siqueira]

I've been using a Summicron 50mm v3 for 5 years without any problem. For the first 2 years I thought I need a 1.4 but using my kit  I realise I don't need . And I work with theater and music photography so sometimes it's a really dark situation. But my Cron at f2 using 400 speed BW film just works

 

[grahamc]

On 12/15/2021 at 4:30 PM, Alan Siqueira said:

I've been using a Summicron 50mm v3 for 5 years without any problem. For the first 2 years I thought I need a 1.4 but using my kit  I realise I don't need . And I work with theater and music photography so sometimes it's a really dark situation. But my Cron at f2 using 400 speed BW film just works

 

That's good to know.  The cron is such great all rounder and I really like that v3 also 

[RayD28]

I have a v4 Cron and use regularly while the Summilux ASPH sits not the shelf.  A couple of weekends ago I took the Lux instead of the Cron.  I had it on a M240 and shot at ISO 200 all day and when I got home and downloaded the shots I was amazed by the quality.  Some shots were just before or near twilight and they were awesome.  Upon closer look I noted that not once did I open up more that f2.8.  

I have no side-by-side comparisons.  My point is the need for an extra stop may not be as important as we sometimes think.  

[shirubadanieru]

I’ve been shooting with an Elmar 50mm f3.5 and no problem even when shooting with a ISO 200 film. If it’s a sunny day, you’d still be able to shoot in dark areas at f3.5 and shutter speed of 1/125 or 1/60. Totally doable. 

The Summicron at f2 is already way more than enough and by far the best option compared to the lux. The lux is great if you shoot it mainly wide open and at close distances to get that extra bit of bokeh. The other thing too is that the 1/1000 max shutter speed hardly allow you to shoot wide open on film with a summilux (unless you are under the shade) so it feels like a bit of an overkill for the extra weight / price.

I actually prefer the Elmar f3.5 or f2.8 to the summicron simply because they are so compact and fit in my jacket pocket when collapsed. But the best one body / one lens combo would have to be the summicron for sure. 

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I actually prefer the Elmar f3.5 or f2.8 to the summicron simply because they are so compact and fit in my jacket pocket when collapsed. But the best one body / one lens combo would have to be the summicron for sure. 

At least my Elmar-M 50/2.8 is better than my sold cron50 v5 and a bit better than my sold cron 50 iv. So I don’t see the Elmar as a compromise in favor of portability at all and it stands very close to the APO50 as far as I can judge from the pictures here on the forum. There was a comparison once here which supported this opinion. But it can well be that the tolerances in the endcontrol at Leica were less tight in the nineties than now, so individual differences occurred more often. 

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[shirubadanieru]

1 hour ago, otto.f said:

At least my Elmar-M 50/2.8 is better than my sold cron50 v5 and a bit better than my sold cron 50 iv. So I don’t see the Elmar as a compromise in favor of portability at all and it stands very close to the APO50 as far as I can judge from the pictures here on the forum. There was a comparison once here which supported this opinion. But it can well be that the tolerances in the endcontrol at Leica were less tight in the nineties than now, so individual differences occurred more often. 

I was talking about the old elmar (not the M), & like you I do love the Elmar lineup and don't see them as a compromise. Obviously it's one stop less than the summicron but unless someone shoots at night / indoors frequently there's no problem at all.