AceVentura1986 Posted July 20, 2021 Share #1 Posted July 20, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, all. I’m still learning my M3 and had a question: Should I leave the shutter cocked, un-cocked or does it even matter? In other words, after snapping a shot, should I advance the film lever and thereby cock the shutter even if that means the shutter may remain cocked for days, or longer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2021 Posted July 20, 2021 Hi AceVentura1986, Take a look here Cocked Shutter Question. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 20, 2021 Share #2 Posted July 20, 2021 31 minutes ago, AceVentura1986 said: Hello, all. I’m still learning my M3 and had a question: Should I leave the shutter cocked, un-cocked or does it even matter? In other words, after snapping a shot, should I advance the film lever and thereby cock the shutter even if that means the shutter may remain cocked for days, or longer? Hello Ace, Nice camera. The reason Leitz used a big, overbuilt, slow running shutter in an M3 was to make it more robust, more reliable & more durable. That is the same reason that they used an idea from the clock/watch industry invented hundreds of years ago which is called a "stackfreed" to have a more durable & long lasting spring to power the shutter. Keeping in mind that many of the mechanisms used in the manufacture of "miniature cameras" were copied from the clock/watch industry. As were bicycles & bicycle chains. A stackfreed mechanism allows a maker to take a spring & wind it up to a certain point & then to lock it. The spring is then wound to a second point & then locked again. The mechanism is then engaged with the spring so that the portion of the spring that is being used to power the device is in between the 2 locked positions. This way the portion of the spring's potential power that is used to power something is that "sweet spot" after the lowest power & before the highest power of the spring. Which is what Leitz did. So, in theory it does NOT matter if an M3 is left wound or not. It is the part of the spring's power where "wound" or "not wound" doesn't matter. The only thing that MIGHT be effected is the curtains which are rolled/extended different ways when the shutter is wound or rolled down. I have no data on the effect or not on curtains when the shutter is wound or run down. Best Regards, Michael 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted July 20, 2021 Share #3 Posted July 20, 2021 I used to cock, and leave my film cameras for perhaps weeks at a time, or more. Now i leave my iiic and M6, Nikons etc uncocked. Not sure it really makes any difference, or there would be more fuss and warnings, particularly nowadays with www. It certainly stops accidental misfires with my film cameras, which was always a waste of a frame, when leaving the cameras uncocked. ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 20, 2021 Share #4 Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) Hello Dave, I also usually do not cock the shutter until I am getting ready to take a new picture. Unless I am expecting to take another picture relatively soon. Also to not potentially waste a frame since a shutter that is not cocked can not be inadvertently or accidentally released. Beside that, quick, easy, smooth winding, singly or in bits, is 1 of an M3's best features. Meaning winding is rarely a hinderance to picture taking. Best Regards, Michael Edited July 20, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan2z Posted July 20, 2021 Share #5 Posted July 20, 2021 I tend to leave the shutter on my cameras cocked, if only from force of habit. I haven't noticed that any harm has come to them by doing so. I just know that if I leave the shutter uncocked then I'll miss a photo in the time it takes me to attempt to fire the shutter, realize it's not cocked, cock the shutter and then press the shutter button I'd rather not chance it... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 20, 2021 Share #6 Posted July 20, 2021 Leave it cocked then you are ready for the next shot, also check it's still cocked immediately after taking it out of the camera bag. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 20, 2021 Share #7 Posted July 20, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) From what I have heard and seen myself, the shutter brake tends to leave indentation marks on the shutter curtains if the shutter stays cocked for an extended period of time without firing the shutter. So my habit is to leave the shutter uncocked when the camera is stored. However, no harm is to be expected from cocking the shutter right after a shot, with a view to be ready for the next shot. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 20, 2021 Share #8 Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, wizard said: From what I have heard and seen myself, the shutter brake tends to leave indentation marks on the shutter curtains if the shutter stays cocked for an extended period of time without firing the shutter. So my habit is to leave the shutter uncocked when the camera is stored. e. Brake Assembly (fig. 37). The brake is deactivated when the shutter is wound. When the shutter is released the first curtain traverses the film aperture and, near the end of its run, activates the brake From page 7 of the M2 US Army training manual, my underlining. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 20, 2021 Share #9 Posted July 20, 2021 vor 37 Minuten schrieb 250swb: From page 7 of the M2 US Army training manual, my underlining. I am sure you are correct. However, when storing my M6TTL (now sold) for longer periods with its shutter cocked, you could see pronounced indentation marks (running vertically along the shutter curtain) on at least one of the shutter curtains (don't remember if such marks were also present on the second shutter curtain). Someone then told me to store the camera with its shutter uncocked, and those marks never returned from there on. Whether those marks originated from the shutter brake is what I do not know. Judging from the manual you quoted, it seems likely that those marks are not caused by the shutter brake, but since they were there (and took quite some time to go away), I prefer to store my Leicas uncocked. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted July 20, 2021 Author Share #10 Posted July 20, 2021 Thanks for all the great comments. The gist I get is that it doesn’t really matter in the end, but I’ll prob leave it un-cocked whenever I can. I just won’t worry too much about it. Thanks again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Soare Posted July 20, 2021 Share #11 Posted July 20, 2021 Cocked if there's film in it. Uncocked if there isn't. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hintsalae Posted July 22, 2021 Share #12 Posted July 22, 2021 (edited) On 7/20/2021 at 12:46 PM, wizard said: I am sure you are correct. However, when storing my M6TTL (now sold) for longer periods with its shutter cocked, you could see pronounced indentation marks (running vertically along the shutter curtain) on at least one of the shutter curtains (don't remember if such marks were also present on the second shutter curtain). Someone then told me to store the camera with its shutter uncocked, and those marks never returned from there on. Whether those marks originated from the shutter brake is what I do not know. Judging from the manual you quoted, it seems likely that those marks are not caused by the shutter brake, but since they were there (and took quite some time to go away), I prefer to store my Leicas uncocked. Andy It's probably the clamp in shutter drum which holds end of the shutter curtain in place. When shutter is cocked the curtain runs over the bracket and that might leave vertical lines over time. (The black thing in the picture on left side of the shutter drum) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 22, 2021 by Hintsalae 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/322835-cocked-shutter-question/?do=findComment&comment=4243116'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 22, 2021 Share #13 Posted July 22, 2021 39 minutes ago, Hintsalae said: It's probably the clamp in shutter drum which holds end of the shutter curtain in place. When shutter is cocked the curtain runs over the bracket and that might leave vertical lines over time. (The black thing in the picture on left side of the shutter drum) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Do you have actual evidence of it leaving indentations in the shutter curtain? I've never left my Leica M uncocked (unless by mistake) for the past 45 years and have never ever seen indentations in the shutter curtains of all the many and varied Leica M's I've owned. I fear this is another of the 'old wives tales' around Leica that should go into the delete bin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hintsalae Posted July 22, 2021 Share #14 Posted July 22, 2021 Not personally but problem described above certainly seems like that part causes it. You can see in the image that the clamp leaves ghost image on curtain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted July 23, 2021 Share #15 Posted July 23, 2021 10 hours ago, 250swb said: I fear this is another of the 'old wives tales' around Leica that should go into the delete bin. We see a lot of recommendations on this forum for trusted Leica repair technicians, perhaps the 'Old Wife' should come top of the list.😄 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 23, 2021 Share #16 Posted July 23, 2021 vor 11 Stunden schrieb 250swb: I fear this is another of the 'old wives tales' around Leica that should go into the delete bin. Are you serious? I had my first Leica M3 in 1973, and have used various Leicas ever since. Do you think I make up stories here when explaining that I noticed those marks on my M6TTL shutter? And subsequently even asked a repairperson as to the cause of those marks? And why would I make up any stories in the first place? I rather remain quiet if I have nothing to contribute. Whether there will be any indentations left on the shutter curtain or not may well depend on the material of the shutter curtains (which is not always the same, so there may be indentations on certain cameras and none on others). Also, I did indicate that those indentations have formed after prolonged storage of a cocked camera. If you use your camera regularly, those indentations will not form or will barely be visible. vor 12 Stunden schrieb Hintsalae: It's probably the clamp in shutter drum which holds end of the shutter curtain in place. You are quite correct. This is the part I referred to above, but I had wrongly assumed that it is a part of the shutter brake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted July 23, 2021 Share #17 Posted July 23, 2021 For 40+ years I have remembered the advice not to leave a shutter cocked, so that’s what I do. Doesn’t feel right leaving it cocked. I will fire off a blank frame if necessary to put the camera away. The odd blank frame helps when cutting stripes of negatives, which is why I like the extra wide spacing on the early Nikon S cameras with their 24x34 negatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted July 23, 2021 Share #18 Posted July 23, 2021 Among cameras in my collection are those where the meter turns on when the shutter is cocked. That can drain the battery. As a result I've formed the habit to leave the shutter released until I'm ready to take a picture. Otherwise I agree it makes no significant difference to the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 24, 2021 Share #19 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, Pyrogallol said: For 40+ years I have remembered the advice not to leave a shutter cocked, so that’s what I do. Doesn’t feel right leaving it cocked. I will fire off a blank frame if necessary to put the camera away. The odd blank frame helps when cutting stripes of negatives, which is why I like the extra wide spacing on the early Nikon S cameras with their 24x34 negatives. Hello Pyrogalloi, Was the total frame to frame movement of film in the camera, in early Nikon S cameras with 24 X 34 frames, the same distance that it was with the later Nikon F's? Did that mean that a person came to the end at the same place at the end of the same 36 exposure film cartridge with both cameras after 36 exposures? Meaning: At the end of a 36 exposure roll, would there be the same amount of film left on the spool with both cameras? If you do not know now, is there a way that you could test using your film testing cartridge? Best Regards, Michael Edited July 24, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted July 24, 2021 Share #20 Posted July 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said: Hello Pyrogalloi, Was the total frame to frame movement of film in the camera, in early Nikon S cameras with 24 X 34 frames, the same distance that it was with the later Nikon F's? Did that mean that a person came to the end at the same place at the end of the same 36 exposure film cartridge with both cameras after 36 exposures? Meaning: At the end of a 36 exposure roll, would there be the same amount of film left on the spool with both cameras? If you do not know now, is there a way that you could test using your film testing cartridge? Best Regards, Michael Two strips of negatives. Top one is from a Leica 111b with 35mm Summaron. Bottom strip from a Nikon S with 35mm Nikkor. The Nikon frames are shorter with wider spaces between them, so a 36 exposure film would give about the same number of pictures in each camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/322835-cocked-shutter-question/?do=findComment&comment=4244440'>More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now