voigtlander,the best leica lenses in the world

[jdlaing]

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3 minutes ago, jaeger said:

no offend, Wetzlar is a park not a factory, not much producing from there.  It's for show, sales, marketing and service mainly.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1703569122/inside-leicas-factory-in-wetzlar?slide=37
 

https://www.pcmag.com/news/a-visit-to-leica-park-an-inside-look-at-the-factory-and-archives

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[fotografr]

1 hour ago, jaeger said:

no offend, Wetzlar is a park not a factory, not much producing from there.  It's for show, sales, marketing and service mainly.

No offense taken. There is a showroom, a park and a museum, but there is also a production facility for cameras and lenses. The following is a quote from Leica, not from me.

"To guarantee the exceptional quality we demand and you expect from us, the Leica M10 is exclusively manufactured by the highly-qualified specialists at our factory in Wetzlar, Germany."

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by fotografr

[FrozenInTime]

5 minutes ago, fotografr said:

This is a quote from Leica, not from me.

"To guarantee the exceptional quality we demand and you expect from us, the Leica M10 is exclusively manufactured by the highly-qualified specialists at our factory in Wetzlar, Germany."

I wonder why they would want to intentionally confuse us about this,?

http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/80FDTimes-LEICA-PortugalFactoryTour.pdf

R&D ,  NPI  , final assembly and test = Made in Wetzlar 

[jaeger]

obviously the marketing works.  👆

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, FrozenInTime said:

http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/80FDTimes-LEICA-PortugalFactoryTour.pdf

R&D ,  NPI  , final assembly and test = Made in Wetzlar 

Agree.

[fotografr]

6 minutes ago, jaeger said:

obviously the marketing works.  👆

So do the large windows where you can look from the museum directly into the large production area. 😁

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5 hours ago, Nowhereman said:

No personal experience with 21mm f/1.4 lenses but I just read the following interesting, recent post by Ron Scheffler, who has looked carefully at 21mm lenses in the last few years: This CV does look really great. It's definitely a better technical performer than the 21 Lux (which is now somewhat 'old' in design)...As someone who was crazy about 21mm M lenses and at one time owned 4 at the same time (well before this CV reached the market). I'm now down to the 21 Lux and 21 SEM and use the SEM far more often, even in lower light situations. The only two things the SEM can't do is light gathering when you really need it and providing a shallow depth of field look. If you value these two features, then the CV is definitely the lens to get. The fact that the CV is such a great performer in general, means it could effectively be your only 21. The 'elephant' in the room is its size and weight. Given you can use the M10 in live view, it can make up for viewfinder blockage (of course the frame lines don't cover 21, but you can still guesstimate framing pretty well through the OVF). Balance on the camera may be a bit off and not really 'in harmony' with the M system design, but that's a subjective thing. It will also take up a fair amount of camera bag space, which will depend on how much stuff you usually like to bring along.
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Or buy an external finder like i did [voigtlander 21/25 ] .

I sometimes need the speed the nokton provides and the summilux is way out of my price range so it made perfect sense to buy the nokton for me.

[Dennis]

16 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

and the summilux is way out of my price range so it made perfect sense to buy the nokton for me.

yes, and with the Distagon in between 🙂 

[jaeger]

36 minutes ago, fotografr said:

So do the large windows where you can look from the museum directly into the large production area. 😁

That window you are referring to, was a chicken show.  I used to be an ERP potato and I used to work with factory/marketing/operation.... whatever and I kinda able to guess the capacity of Wetzlar base on the count/size of the products, machines size of the building.  I'm now old and dated maybe they have some outta space German technologies that I've never heard of.  Anyway, I am not trying to undo any brainwash, do believe what you think is true.  It good to have some fantasies.

Edited July 1, 2021 by jaeger

[Guest]

Just now, Dennis said:

yes, and with the Distagon in between 🙂 

Just to confirm i am talking about my voigtlander 21mm f1.4 nokton which in uk money cost £1,100 against the summilux £6,400 .

The 35mm distagon is £1,600 in the uk .

Not knocking the 21mm summilux its just not affordable to me anyway although it must be possible that the more modern nokton is technically better.

I also own the voigtlander 40mm f1.4 sc nokton which i love for people photography. [uk £400 approx]

[Guest]

I always believed that leica stuff was hand made mostly in germany where wages were high and this was a big factor in the very high price.

But cosina were more of a standard mass production type company with cheaper labour.

But handling my 21mm f1.4 nokton makes me wonder about my presumptions because its so beautifully constructed.

Reviews usually say "the leica is better but not 5 or  10 times better" than the voigtlander, but could it be that now its "the leica is equal to the voigtlander but much more expensive" ?

[fotografr]

42 minutes ago, jaeger said:

That window you are referring to, was a chicken show.  I used to be an ERP potato and I used to work with factory/marketing/operation.... whatever and I kinda able to guess the capacity of Wetzlar base on the count/size of the products, machines size of the building.  I'm now old and dated maybe they have some outta space German technologies that I've never heard of.  Anyway, I am not trying to undo any brainwash, do believe what you think is true.  It good to have some fantasies.

I don't really care where they make the stuff, but it seems silly to me to have something like this "just for show." Maybe they have gnomes grinding everything out in some basement in Stuttgart. What does it matter? I guess I've been brainwashed, but to what end???

 

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Edited July 2, 2021 by fotografr

[Ko.Fe.]

13 minutes ago, fotografr said:

I don't really care where they make the stuff, but it seems silly to me to have something like this "just for show." Maybe they have gnomes grinding everything out in some basement in Stuttgart. What does it matter? I guess I've been brainwashed, but to what end???

 

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Where are they? Place looks staged and dead. 

[rtai]

25 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

I always believed that leica stuff was hand made mostly in germany where wages were high and this was a big factor in the very high price.

But cosina were more of a standard mass production type company with cheaper labour.

But handling my 21mm f1.4 nokton makes me wonder about my presumptions because its so beautifully constructed.

Reviews usually say "the leica is better but not 5 or  10 times better" than the voigtlander, but could it be that now its "the leica is equal to the voigtlander but much more expensive" ?

Unless the Voigtlander is sold out here I’ll buy one today and see how it performs on my M10M. Japanese lenses tend to be sharp and very contrasty for example the ZM 21/2.8 and 25/2.8 Distagon the ones I have owned. I prefer my lenses to be lower contrast; it’s a personal preference and I think it works better on the Monochrom. A lot of people like to use vintage lenses on the Monochrom for that look. I do think the 21mm Summilux is the best Summilux Leica makes. The subject matter separation and tonality is quite intense. Here’s a street shot from a few weeks ago. Wide open of course and exposure adjustments only:

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[fotografr]

38 minutes ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Where are they? Place looks staged and dead. 

Uh, Covid.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, rtai said:

Unless the Voigtlander is sold out here I’ll buy one today and see how it performs on my M10M. Japanese lenses tend to be sharp and very contrasty for example the ZM 21/2.8 and 25/2.8 Distagon the ones I have owned. I prefer my lenses to be lower contrast; it’s a personal preference and I think it works better on the Monochrom. A lot of people like to use vintage lenses on the Monochrom for that look. I do think the 21mm Summilux is the best Summilux Leica makes. The subject matter separation and tonality is quite intense. Here’s a street shot from a few weeks ago. Wide open of course and exposure adjustments only:

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I have seen a lot of warmth and appreciation of the lux 21mm and for those that can afford it im sure its top class.

I only use my 21mm for landscape images and need the f1.4 sometimes because i run out of light.

For people i use my 40mm and 28mm mostly.

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

Just to confirm i am talking about my voigtlander 21mm f1.4 nokton which in uk money cost £1,100 against the summilux £6,400 .

The 35mm distagon is £1,600 in the uk .

Not knocking the 21mm summilux its just not affordable to me anyway although it must be possible that the more modern nokton is technically better.

I also own the voigtlander 40mm f1.4 sc nokton which i love for people photography. [uk £400 approx]

My fault, sorry. For some reason, I had in mind the 35FL 🙏

.

 If I feel comfortable with the CV 21/3.5, especially with the FL on M, the Nokton 1,4 goes next. 🤨 I always felt the 21 be a strong FL character, in some situations a game-changer. One has to master framing and perspective to avoid (when necessary) the "excessive" distortion. And so fully embrace a large amount of context and information (well done) in the picture. My path with the 21FL is still on the learning curve, and some Voigtlanders can indeed helping me in my journey.

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3 minutes ago, Dennis said:

My fault, sorry. For some reason, I had in mind the 35FL 🙏

.

 If I feel comfortable with the CV 21/3.5, especially with the FL on M, the Nokton 1,4 goes next. 🤨 I always felt the 21 be a strong FL character, in some situations a game-changer. One has to master framing and perspective to avoid (when necessary) the "excessive" distortion. And so fully embrace a large amount of context and information (well done) in the picture. My path with the 21FL is still on the learning curve, and some Voigtlanders can indeed helping me in my journey.

 

I had a bit of a banter/fun exchange with the poster "adan" when he said how he liked the drama of the 21mm lens.

Anyway it stuck in my head and last october i bought the voigtlander 21mm f1.4 nokton and i started really using it properly from may this year.

Since then i have taken my two best ever landscape images with this lens and about 5 other pictures i was pleased with so its become the lens i am always wanting to use for my landscape type pictures.

I am 62 years old and always struggled with wide angle lenses until i got the 21mm nokton but now i always look to get the 21mm into the action.

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[Dennis]

18 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

I had a bit of a banter/fun exchange with the poster "adan" when he said how he liked the drama of the 21mm lens.

Anyway it stuck in my head and last october i bought the voigtlander 21mm f1.4 nokton and i started really using it properly from may this year.

Since then i have taken my two best ever landscape images with this lens and about 5 other pictures i was pleased with so its become the lens i am always wanting to use for my landscape type pictures.

I am 62 years old and always struggled with wide angle lenses until i got the 21mm nokton but now i always look to get the 21mm into the action.

Beautiful. And Nokton 1.4 is ... 

I would say also street, it's huge and not so light, but not prohibitive. Zone focus and external VF and voila. F/8 and f/1.4 too, to play with shallow DoF.

Milky way? oh yes... I never had a fast 21mm, always 2.8 or more. And It would be nice taking it with an M camera 

[rtai]

52 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

I have seen a lot of warmth and appreciation of the lux 21mm and for those that can afford it im sure its top class.

I only use my 21mm for landscape images and need the f1.4 sometimes because i run out of light.

For people i use my 40mm and 28mm mostly.

Since it is going to be my primary lens used 80% of the time I could justify in my head at least, and I tend to rationalise Leica purchases with potential resale value after 20 years of use. I prefer the 21 focal length for street because I want the environment to be part of the photo. At F1.4 from 2 meters away can give a look akin to a 50mm Summilux but with a lot more scenery.