voigtlander,the best leica lenses in the world

[astrostl]

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32 minutes ago, Danner said:

I guess?  Still, my v5 50 Cron feels significantly higher quality than my VC Nokton 35/1.4 II.  Especially in the focus tension and resistance feel.  All around, the Cron feels and works better, IMHO.  I would also rate my C-Biogon 35/2.8 above the Nokton for overall quality.  But at the end of the day, I love them all 🙂

The 35/1.4 II is part of the Classic line and has self-described copy such as, "The spherical aberrations that influenced image rendering on its predecessor are retained as is, intentionally so." It is purposefully making sacrifices on optics for the sake of lower cost/size/weight and kookier rendering. I think the 50/1.2, 50/1.5, and 50/2 APO would all make better comparisons with a Summicron in terms of what they are trying to accomplish.

[rramesh]

There is no one best.

One needs to differentiate "Best Technically', "Best Fit for Purpose' or 'Best Value for Money'.

 

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[Lee S]

In my eyes I would say for a rangefinder lens they are great value for money, but so is the latest DJI Optical lenses.

I wonder if Cosina could make the 35mm APO-Lanthar the same size and performance as the APO-Summicron and if so, what would be the price point?

Surely Cosina must be outselling Leica lenses now and can produce them more cost effectively. 
 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Lee S

[LocalHero1953]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:19 AM, luigi bertolotti said:

I agree, as a happy owner of the 15 V3;  but... making a camera is all another matter... they did a good job on film, indeed... but is really a tiny niche, today... make and maintain a digital device, with all that it means in terms of sourced critical parts, is a task not comparable to make fine manual focus lenses.

Example... how ended the project of the "Russian M" that was announced time ago ? 

 

I am sure you are correct about the prospect of a new digital CV rangefinder, because of the complexities of new designs and parts. But how about a CV M-mount EVF camera? A prospective Leica version has been discussed and written off many times on this forum. With no heritage baggage to jettison, and using standard mirrorless designs and parts.........

As for CV lenses being good or bad for Leica, AFAIC any competition is good for us as photographers. If you buy Leica for the name alone, then CV lenses will be bad for Leica; but if Leica do not try to beat the competition (at some point in price-quality-design-performance space) then they do not deserve to survive. Under current management and ownership I suspect Leica fully understands this. They are dealing with exactly the same issue in the L-mount, an alliance they entered into willingly. Leica may well be happy not to have to maintain the Summarit line as long as others offer cheaper M-mount lenses to entice photographers into the M market.

Edited June 30, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[Simone_DF]

14 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

i feel voigtlander have played a big part in the summarit line being dropped from the line up.

That's my thought too. Why get a Summarit when you can get a Voigtlander with faster aperture, probably same or better perfomances, and still save money?

[luigi bertolotti]

5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

. But how about a CV M-mount EVF camera? ...

Would be fine... I think that to make it "different"  (say, not a Sony-like or Lumix-like or...) they would have to find "something distinguishing" ... no idea what it can be.. if on tech side or design side... maybe inspiring to Sigma... and it ought to be the "perfect host" for their M mount lenses... so staying away from AF and playing hard on compactness and simplicity... an idea to elaborate onto...

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by luigi bertolotti

[rtai]

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Can a $2000 Leica lens compete with a $500 Japanese lens? It a different economy of scale. It isn’t even a fair comparison. If a new Leica lens costs $2000 you can bet you are only getting a $200 lens and the rest goes to whatever it costs to support a niche company and it’s dealer network. I owned the 35mm f2.4 Summarit and the built quality is a disgrace no nowhere what we expect from Voigtlander.

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

That's my thought too. Why get a Summarit when you can get a Voigtlander with faster aperture, probably same or better perfomances, and still save money?

 

[Simone_DF]

50 minutes ago, rtai said:

Can a $2000 Leica lens compete with a $500 Japanese lens? It a different economy of scale. It isn’t even a fair comparison. If a new Leica lens costs $2000 you can bet you are only getting a $200 lens and the rest goes to whatever it costs to support a niche company and it’s dealer network. I owned the 35mm f2.4 Summarit and the built quality is a disgrace no nowhere what we expect from Voigtlander.

 

Why, is Voigtlander a big company? Voigtlander is even smaller than Leica. Leica has cameras, binoculars, smartphones, luxury accessories, t shirts, books, boutiques and all that crap they sell to sustain the company.

Voigtlander has only a bunch of lenses and nothing else.

[lct]

4 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Would be fine... I think that to make it "different"  (say, not a Sony-like or Lumix-like or...) they would have to find "something distinguishing" ... no idea what it can be.. if on tech side or design side... maybe inspiring to Sigma... and it ought to be the "perfect host" for their M mount lenses... so staying away from AF and playing hard on compactness and simplicity... an idea to elaborate onto..

It would need an M mount with a link to the focus cam of lenses (Epson did it, Pixii does it too) plus a thin sensor stack with microlenses (Ricoh did it, PIxii i guess so) but it could not read 6-bit coding, as to being full frame...

[cboy]

On 6/29/2021 at 5:05 PM, Cobram said:

As per Voigtländer lenses in general: I think they are making a marvelous job. The only thing that is holding them back is proper M mount "budget" camera. 

It would be great idea if voigtlander made digital bodies to suit their lenses. All the better for competition and to promote their brand even though its a niche market. A digital body calibrated for their own lenses would have huge appeal as it did for their film line.

The epson rd series was a great camera to rival leica later down the track, despite being the first digital rangefinder with a high price tag at the start.

The complaints of the fuji xpro and x100v is that the lack of manual / coupled controls will never give a rangefinder experience that many want.

Imho the Pixii and Zx1 really are aimed too high a price to allow consumers to enter the digital rangefinder market and so are left to compromise to the above or a second hand m body....its a shame. Maybe because the r&d of first gen products are always high i guess. Perhaps a collaboration with Pixii/Epson and Voigtlander in the future?

Im quite sure many would shift off from leica if there was company would provide a similar product offering...

The status quo will forever be Auto everything...

Apologies for the rant.

[Dennis]

My next three lenses in the radar, they are actually Voigtlander.

• 21/3.5 Color Skopar + 21/25 VF
• 35/2 Apo Lanthar
• 50/1.5 II (nickel)

I like so far very much my new 35 Nokton Classic, my first CV lens. Let's do for more.

.

What do you guys think of the CV 50/1.5 II vs 50/2 Summicron v5 (last version with collapsible hood) ? I was thinking to sell my Summicron and get some (or all) the three lenses above.  

I use 90% my M10 with 35FL. The 50 in my M world, it's my tele-photo. So when I use it, it's usually wide open or so. I saw the 50/1.5 II wide open and it's beautiful. So I would probably use it in the f/1.5 - f/4 only.

 

 

 

[Harpomatic]

50 minutes ago, Dennis said:

My next three lenses in the radar, they are actually Voigtlander.

• 21/3.5 Color Skopar + 21/25 VF
• 35/2 Apo Lanthar
• 50/1.5 II (nickel)

I like so far very much my new 35 Nokton Classic, my first CV lens. Let's do for more.

.

What do you guys think of the CV 50/1.5 II vs 50/2 Summicron v5 (last version with collapsible hood) ? I was thinking to sell my Summicron and get some (or all) the three lenses above.  

I use 90% my M10 with 35FL. The 50 in my M world, it's my tele-photo. So when I use it, it's usually wide open or so. I saw the 50/1.5 II wide open and it's beautiful. So I would probably use it in the f/1.5 - f/4 only.

 

 

 

I think the Nokton II is a better choice than the Cron V: much less focus shift and one extra stop. The Cron is no slouch at all, better for vignetting and has no mid-frame dip. The Nokton has better corners and better bokeh. 
I’d switch if I were you. But that’s me…

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Why, is Voigtlander a big company? Voigtlander is even smaller than Leica. Leica has cameras, binoculars, smartphones, luxury accessories, t shirts, books, boutiques and all that crap they sell to sustain the company.

Voigtlander has only a bunch of lenses and nothing else.

You prompted me to look up Cosina ('Voigtlander' is just a brand they use). It is difficult to find good info: their Wikipedia page shows them to have fewer employees than Leica, but the page looks well out of date. Perhaps a Japanese-speaking member can tell us. Cosina are known for designing and making cameras and lenses for other companies. I've heard it said that they also make some or all of the Zeiss ZM lenses, and some of the TL lenses for Leica - I have no idea whether it's true or not. Cosina were always known for making their own glass, but again I don't know if that's still the case. 

It all builds into a picture of a company focused on design and manufacture, and cooperation with others, while Leica, overlapping in many areas, is much more concerned with its own independent brand. Leica may design bits for Panasonic and Huawei, but that is not its raison d'être. 

[rtai]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Why, is Voigtlander a big company? Voigtlander is even smaller than Leica. Leica has cameras, binoculars, smartphones, luxury accessories, t shirts, books, boutiques and all that crap they sell to sustain the company.

Voigtlander has only a bunch of lenses and nothing else.

Voigtlander is a brand. The manufacturer is Cosina one of the biggest optics company in the world. Cosina OEMs for many famous brands including Zeiss, Nikon, Canon.

Edited June 30, 2021 by rtai

[Guest]

19 hours ago, rramesh said:

There is no one best.

One needs to differentiate "Best Technically', "Best Fit for Purpose' or 'Best Value for Money'.

 

When i started the thread i had in mind the best technically,the type of lens both companies strive to make as perfect as possible for example the 35mm and 50mm apo that both companies produce.

My point is that voigtlander modern lenses like the 35mm apo,50 apo,28mm asph,21mm f1.4 nokton and others might be as good at least as equivalent leica lenses regardless of price. 

It just seems like cosina really mean to compete on an equal level possibly helped by their popularity with sony users ,at least if the fred miranda forum is anything to go by..

Obviously both companies also make and have made lenses based on old designs and i really like that concept.

[mmradman]

6 hours ago, lct said:

It would need an M mount with a link to the focus cam of lenses (Epson did it, Pixii does it too) plus a thin sensor stack with microlenses (Ricoh did it, PIxii i guess so) but it could not read 6-bit coding, as to being full frame...

I think 6-bit coding is patent protected and doubt Leica would license it to third party. On the other hand manually imputing lens data into the camera is nothing new and in theory lens profiles could be built for any number of lenses. As you said Japanese had a go at M mount APS-C digital cameras in the past, Epson and Ricoh.

It seems no aperite to do it again, either APS-c or full frame, yet.  If someone saw it as viable business it could be done by number of Japanese businesses. Reason it didn’t happen (yet) could be that Japanese prefer micro 4/3 and APS-C, Olympus and Pentax seem to be doing well in Japanese market. If they desire full frame M mount camera they usually buy original, Leica is doing well in the Far East.

Edited June 30, 2021 by mmradman

[jdlaing]

And all sensors have micro lenses.

[rramesh]

7 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Why, is Voigtlander a big company? Voigtlander is even smaller than Leica. Leica has cameras, binoculars, smartphones, luxury accessories, t shirts, books, boutiques and all that crap they sell to sustain the company.

Voigtlander has only a bunch of lenses and nothing else.

Cosina manufacturers Voigtlander lenses with the Voigtlander name leased from a German company. They also manufacture lenses under contract for Zeiss. Cosina is a pioneer in optical polishing and lens grinding in Japan.

[Ko.Fe.]

How CV lenses could be any bad for x10 priced Leica lenses?

 

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Simone_DF]

 

8 hours ago, rtai said:

Voigtlander is a brand. The manufacturer is Cosina one of the biggest optics company in the world. Cosina OEMs for many famous brands including Zeiss, Nikon, Canon.

That is true, but the Voigtlander brand cannot operate at a loss, and Japanse salaries are way higher than German salaries.