Sigma 28-70 is shipping again

[setuporg]

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Got a B&H update that it's back in stock.  I'm assuming the ghosting issues were resolved.  Now that's the compact kit SL lens we were waiting for.  Forget both Sigma 24-70 and its rebadged Leica twin, this one looks so much smaller, lighter, and proportionally fitting the APO primes!

Edited May 21, 2021 by setuporg

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[oldwino]

I'm interested in this lens, too, and I really don't like using zoom lenses.

[caissa]

I never thought I would need to correct a SL user.

The SL 24-70 is not a rebadge. Only people who do not care about details say this. There are several differences e.g. 9 special glass elements and better IQ (see MTFs or real tests). Some are important, and not just the price. First inform yourself in detail before you talk about “rebadge”.

Both lenses are probably based on the same lens drawing. (On paper they look the same, but paper is not very precise.) Both use 19 elements in 15 groups. But the implementation is different in many places. Tighter tolerances and different glass in one place at least and all metal body (weight is different), different lens shade and no buttons, different working with Leica firmware (e.g. optional linear focusing in manual mode). Generally the SL version makes a more robust impression and the zooming is also slightly smoother.

By the way the Famous R 2.8/35-70 (now a collectors item, very few were built) contains only 11 elements in 9 groups. And is therefore optically (MTFs) no match.

An actual user would never think it is the “same” lens. (A similar lens, yes). It is far better than I expected after using the Sigma version (that can be tested since a year or more).

The Sigma 28-70 is also very interesting. But I have the impression that it is unfortunately optically weaker, not just the bad sealing. Would like to see a detailed test (maybe also from red dot ?). So in the end the Pana 20-60 is probably more useful than the 28-70.

Edited May 21, 2021 by caissa

[setuporg]

6 hours ago, caissa said:

The SL 24-70 is not a rebadge.

I've studied all the posts on this forum, reviewed the whole Red Dot Forum episode, and have made my own conclusions.

It seems to me those who want Leica 24-70 to be different are trying hard to see things not confirmed anywhere.  We don't know what the "special element" is.  We don't know what coating differences there are -- Sigma touts its own nanocoating.    The MTF curves for Leica are said to be compurer-generated.

Have you held both lenses in your hands and tested them to claim all those special elements perform better in reality?

6 hours ago, caissa said:

Tighter tolerances and different glass

What exactly are the tolerances in each?  How do you know some are "tighter"?  How different is the glass, exactly?

Sigma barrel is admirable and there's absolutely no proof that a metal barrel is better in any way.  A solid composite barrel is lighter.  Sigma build feels fantastic.

Sigma has zoom lock that prevent the zoom from shifting.  It has an AF/MF switch.  It has an AF L button.  They are great.  And any talk about diminished weather sealing is baseless until you prove it.

So it's not really a rebadge, it's a downgrade.  And it costs more than twice as much.  It is actually a misstep on Leica part that will make many, many people look harder at Sigma and see that they don't have to pay extra.

Edited May 22, 2021 by setuporg

[Jeff S]

The Sigma lens comes with a $17 hood (actual price). Small detail, but doesn’t reinforce notion that attention to design detail is on par with Leica counterpart in all aspects.  Sigma makes fine lenses, however, and the zoom seems no exception.  But if I were interested in a 24-70 (I’m not, well satisfied with the superior 24-90), I’d buy the Leica, with the typically more elegant design, yet modest pricing by Leica standards.  Borrowing from Sigma (and other companies) is nothing new for Leica.

Jeff

[setuporg]

7 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

The Sigma lens comes with a $17 hood (actual price). Small detail, but doesn’t reinforce notion that attention to design detail is on par with Leica counterpart in all aspects.

Have you seen the Sigma 24/3.5 hood and its two different caps, one magnetic?  The magnetic one is a marvel, solid metal, Leica could easily charge the price of the whole lens for it.  Have you seen the weirdest ever hoods for the S series?  I believe the 24-90 has the same, misshapen plastic monstrosity?  I now have a box of those...  Sigma hood is elegant, it fits great, and $17 probably reflects Sigma modesty and straightforwardness, if anything else.

Edited May 22, 2021 by setuporg

[Jeff S]

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The Sigma 24-90 hood apparently isn’t of the same quality as the 24 f3.5 hood; my comment relates solely to this and its Leica counterpart. Josh Lehrer, who tempered his comments IMO when reviewing the Sigma lens, still couldn’t resist calling the Sigma hood ‘trash’.  I really don’t care, given that I rarely use hoods, and never make lens purchases on that basis.  Just a minor detail here, but speaks to design feel if we’re scrutinizing.  Leica and Sigma produce fine lenses these days. I’m well past the Leica price discussions, and plastic vs metal, etc.  But I know what I typically end up choosing once I make my own tests for any serious purchase, which is really all that matters to me.  In this case, I have no interest in testing these versions. A high end, but smaller option with internal zoom might have led to a different conclusion.

Jeff

[setuporg]

4 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Josh Lehrer, who tempered his comments IMO when reviewing the Sigma lens, still couldn’t resist calling the Sigma hood ‘trash’

This was really grasping for straws and out of character.  Their pièce de résistance was standing both lenses on their hoods and showing how Sigma wobbles.  Of course, it has petals, its hood is beautifully compact, and it will wobble compared to the solid circle of the Leica!  But then again, Sigma is well made and fine to carry and use.  So this was just another unfair jibe at Sigma proving there's really nothing to say.

Edited May 22, 2021 by setuporg

[Ingo]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb setuporg:

Got a B&H update that it's back in stock.  I'm assuming the ghosting issues were resolved.  Now that's the compact kit SL lens we were waiting for. 

It's great to hear that. This will become my zoom for reportage. Small and light. 

[Simone_DF]

Users on this forum before the Sigma rebadge:

”the new Sigma I line is terrific, great build quality, affordable price, they are the saviours of the L mount”

users on this forum after the Sigma rebadge:

”Sigma build quality is crap, I better spend an extra 1500€“
 

[Daniel C.1975]

vor 42 Minuten schrieb Ingo:

It's great to hear that. This will become my zoom for reportage. Small and light. 

Congratulations, you are the first for some posts who is on topic 😉😁

[Jeffry Abt]

6 hours ago, setuporg said:

  Their pièce de résistance was standing both lenses on their hoods and showing how Sigma wobbles.  

It is a minor detail of course… But after covering college basketball for years —it was common for photographers to despise lenses hoods that wobbled when one tried stand the camera on it’s lens hood. 
I’m glad that the Leica hood for 24-70 is an improvement. By the way, I’m not a fan of the Leica lense hoods that come with the SL Cron lenses

Edited May 22, 2021 by Jeffry Abt

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, Daniel C.1975 said:

Congratulations, you are the first for some posts who is on topic 😉😁

Maybe you should re-read the last sentence of the original post, further debated by the OP himself.
 

Jeff

[setuporg]

Happy to return to the actual question of the lens (almost) in hand.:)

[TeleElmar135mm]

In the end what counts is what comes out. 
If the Sigma is as good as the Sigma 24-70 it's ok. 
If it's a bit worse, no problem it's cheaper an lighter. 
And the discussion which lens is better the Leica or the Sigma 24-70 
will be see in some months in this forum. The pictures will decide. 
I think it will be draw.

Edited May 22, 2021 by TeleElmar135mm
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[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, Jeffry Abt said:

I’m glad that the Leica hood for 24-70 is an improvement.

And what is stopping you from purchasing a replacement 24-70 Leica hood and mounting it on the Sigma branded one, if keeping your lens standing on the hood is so important?

Edited May 22, 2021 by Simone_DF

[setuporg]

2 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

what is stopping you from purchasing a replacement 24-70 Leica hood

The hood will come as a kit with the Leica lens, and if you want it on Sigma you'll have to pay the difference.:)

Edited May 22, 2021 by setuporg

[Simone_DF]

Just now, setuporg said:

The hood will come as a kit with the Leica lens, and if you want it on Sigma you'll have to pay the difference.:)

A 1500€ lens hood? seems almost reasonable in Leicaland ;-)

By the way, you can also buy the Sigma hood and mount it on the other Sigma with the yellow font and the red dot.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[setuporg]

I'll have to borrow the Leica lens, put the Sigma hood on it and walk into Leica Miami next time I'm there...

Go Team Wobble-Wobble!

Edited May 22, 2021 by setuporg

[Boojay]

Just now, setuporg said:

I'll have to borrow the Leica lens, put the Sigma hood on it and walk into Leica Miami next time I'm there...

While you're there could you ask Josh to comment on the  LEICA TL Hoods, specifically the 18-56 and the 35 hood, both of mine regularly come apart, in fact I got so fed up with the 18-56 hood I've put it away somewhere, never to be used again 😀.