M10M & Blown Highlights

[mmradman]

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On a lighter note, best review on Youtube by Ikangas. This one is for colour picture but it is very good.

 

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[Gobert]

That guy is great. He knows what he is talking about. Very impressive.

[RMF]

Ok, that video is some funny stuff, gave me a nice smile this morning 😁

[Jeff S]

He offers similarly useful takes on lots of other Leica gear.

Jeff

[jaapv]

On 5/5/2021 at 9:08 PM, lb1800 said:

I was having a go at one particular respondent.

 

Which is not allowed on this forum. Posts will be deleted.

[davidmknoble]

I have used all the monochrome’s and now the M10m.  Something I haven’t seen here is noise. The newer the monochrom the less noise at higher iso. This means you can underexpose by more stops and recover the shadows without creating noise. This is more difficult in color sensors because some colors generate noise more quickly. 
 

so even with careful metering one should underexpose some in all cases. This is like slightly overexposing film for shadow detail (hi lights on negs). I routinely underexpose monochrom shots by a stop or more on the m10m. I used -1.0 on the 246 as well. Best to set the EV for at least -2/3 if you want to meter to the red dot in camera.  I never use Jpegs ooc so I want a dark image. 
 

try it by setting on a tripod or table and shoot metered exposure and the increment by -1/2 stops up to 4 stops and then edit in Lightroom. See where you like the result snd aim for that underexposure. 
 

just my opinion. 

[Gobert]

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7 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

I have used all the monochrome’s and now the M10m.  Something I haven’t seen here is noise. The newer the monochrom the less noise at higher iso. This means you can underexpose by more stops and recover the shadows without creating noise. This is more difficult in color sensors because some colors generate noise more quickly. 
 

so even with careful metering one should underexpose some in all cases. This is like slightly overexposing film for shadow detail (hi lights on negs). I routinely underexpose monochrom shots by a stop or more on the m10m. I used -1.0 on the 246 as well. Best to set the EV for at least -2/3 if you want to meter to the red dot in camera.  I never use Jpegs ooc so I want a dark image. 
 

try it by setting on a tripod or table and shoot metered exposure and the increment by -1/2 stops up to 4 stops and then edit in Lightroom. See where you like the result snd aim for that underexposure. 
 

just my opinion. 

Interesting opinion. As I always to meter correctly, I am very curious to other opinions.

do you apply yellow or orange filters?

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Gobert

[davidmknoble]

@Gobertyes I do use color filters. I use yellow green orange and red. It depends on the lens and scene. For example the APO 50 Summicron is so contrasty I use no filter. But for the old 50 summicron I typically have a yellow filter on all the time. I use green with the 35 cron or 24 for landscapes and orange and red on the 35 lux and 28 cron at the beach.  I still underexpose and pull up shadows and fine tune whites in Lightroom. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by davidmknoble

[digger1914]

With my M10M I also underexpose, up to 2 stops if things are really bright.  There is so much dynamic range that you can recover in post (I use C1) and not risk losing highlights that are there

[Stef63]

Same here.  As a standard -1 stop or more in very bright and contrast rich environments.  Filter mostly orange or even red on the less contrast lenses like the thambar. 

[augustwest100]

I keep switching between exposure comp of -2/3 and just metering without an exposure compensation. It is based in fear - when I see the image on the back of the camera it is like an optical illusion - the brighter images, tending towards overexposure, look better, and the underexposed images look way too dark.  In post, the situation is exactly reversed though. Will have to train my brain again. If people here are going up to 2EV lower than correct exposure and having good results in post, that is really encouraging. I will try this for a while and see how it feels!

[rtai]

I use the M10M for street photography and blown highlights is less of a concern for me. The only way to avoid it is to shoot only during certain hours but I can’t let that dictate when to shoot. People are not trees and rocks.

[hdmesa]

Leica must have changed something with the shutter curtain meter in the most recent M10Ms being produced. Mine (M10M 'Leitz Wetzlar') was made a few months ago, and when using the optical finder, the camera underexposes at least one, often two stops versus live view, thereby producing a correctly exposed shot versus live view at +/-0. Sometimes it underexposes so much I have to add positive exposure compensation. It used to be exactly the reverse – it would overexpose when using the optical finder.

Anyone else with an M10M made April 2021 or later notice this?

Edited August 1, 2021 by hdmesa

[Ken Abrahams]

I have a feeling that something was applied to Adobe software because when importing images into Lightroom in recent months, the images adjust quite dark. Darker than what I visually noted when viewing images - in camera play. I have checked files from January 2020 compared to the last six months and I can’t tell for sure. 
 

You can still blow highlights easy enough  if you are not careful. I have found pre editing in Lightroom very effective for accessing shadow and dark areas. In addition to the exposure highlight shadow sliders, to open up the panel under the curves panel to reveal darks, shadows, Lights and hi light sliders. (Not to keen on Lightroom’s curve interface. Sometimes I need the darks and shadow sliders both increased to 60-70. 
 

Once the image is into photoshop one has more control over the rest of post processing. No problem with shadow details with this camera.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Ken Abrahams

[Gobert]

1 hour ago, Ken Abrahams said:

I have a feeling that something was applied to Adobe software because when importing images into Lightroom in recent months, the images adjust quite dark. Darker than what I visually noted when viewing images - in camera play. I have checked files from January 2020 compared to the last six months and I can’t tell for sure. 
 

You can still blow highlights easy enough  if you are not careful. I have found pre editing in Lightroom very effective for accessing shadow and dark areas. In addition to the exposure highlight shadow sliders, to open up the panel under the curves panel to reveal darks, shadows, Lights and hi light sliders. (Not to keen on Lightroom’s curve interface. Sometimes I need the darks and shadow sliders both increased to 60-70. 
 

Once the image is into photoshop one has more control over the rest of post processing. No problem with shadow details with this camera.

Interesting. Are you still appying the -/- 0.75 or -/-1.0 aperture correction?

[Ken Abrahams]

Mostly, yes. The same exposure compensations as I have always carried out. Sometimes - 2.0

Ken 

[hdmesa]

This has probably been mentioned before, but adding grain in post can sometimes salvage small areas of blown highlights from the Monochrom files. Reminds me of using sepia toning on b&w film prints, which adds texture that can help soften up blown highlights. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by hdmesa

[stefanusj]

On 7/28/2021 at 8:43 PM, davidmknoble said:

I have used all the monochrome’s and now the M10m.  Something I haven’t seen here is noise. The newer the monochrom the less noise at higher iso. This means you can underexpose by more stops and recover the shadows without creating noise. This is more difficult in color sensors because some colors generate noise more quickly. 
 

so even with careful metering one should underexpose some in all cases. This is like slightly overexposing film for shadow detail (hi lights on negs). I routinely underexpose monochrom shots by a stop or more on the m10m. I used -1.0 on the 246 as well. Best to set the EV for at least -2/3 if you want to meter to the red dot in camera.  I never use Jpegs ooc so I want a dark image. 
 

try it by setting on a tripod or table and shoot metered exposure and the increment by -1/2 stops up to 4 stops and then edit in Lightroom. See where you like the result snd aim for that underexposure. 
 

just my opinion. 

i usually shot underexposed 1 to 2 stops, and then recover it in the post processing.

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[Ken Abrahams]

Corrections for seemingly infinite depth of dark - shadow detail in M10M files and risk of losing highlight detail.

In Lightroom prior to transitioning to PS I reduce highlight slider to almost - 100 and bring up the darks and shadow slider a touch. The reduced highlight adjustment can then be corrected by an auto curves in PS. Also reduce clarity and dehaze sliders to the left for effect and that seems to clear some of the harsher contrasts and dark areas. I usually do those latter adjustments in Photoshop by using camera raw after preliminary adjustments in PS. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Ken Abrahams

[didier]

On 8/12/2021 at 5:37 AM, stefanusj said:

i usually shot underexposed 1 to 2 stops, and then recover it in the post processing.

Same here. As I shoot only RAW, it works fine