Advice for choosing the right 28mm lens for landscape photography?

[Jeff S]

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10 minutes ago, pippy said:

Whilst it's true that there were changes to the three lenses mentioned in the article the only time Jono mentions a film camera is when he is discussing, specifically, the v1 Summicron ASPH. This is important because that lens was released six years before the introduction of the first M digital and was, therefore, clearly designed to be used with film bodies;

"...(The 28mm Summicron ASPH) has been a favourite for Leica shooters since its introduction in 2000.....The rear exit pupil is very close to the ‘film’ plane, creating a sharp angle of incidence to the sensor; this is not nearly so critical with the film cameras for which the original lens was designed, but the cover glass thickness and photosite microlens design on digital cameras can cause real problems in terms of soft corners and colour shift across the frame..."

There is nothing in the article, however, to suggest that the Elmarit ASPH v1 was designed with film cameras in mind. I'm not going to say that the Elmarit wasn't designed with film bodies in mind because I simply don't have access to the relevant information but I've yet to see any official evidence that such was the case and as the Elmarit ASPH and M8 were both being developed at the same time it seems highly unlikely that the technical needs of the new camera would be ignored by the team responsible for the new lens.

Philip.

While the initial design intent might have been different (the Elmarit roughly coinciding with the M8 release), the improvements from v.1 to v.2 likely parallel that of the Summicron.  Technology moves on.  As Jono writes...

“It would have been nice to have had the f/2.8 Elmarits for the test, but in the end it proved too complicated to get hold of the lenses in the short timescale. My previous tests in Venice had shown me that the improvements were pretty equivalent, so it still seemed worthwhile testing the 28 Summicron alone.”

 

Jeff

[pippy]

18 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

While the initial design intent might have been different (the Elmarit roughly coinciding with the M8 release), the improvements from v.1 to v.2 likely parallel that of the Summicron.  Technology moves on...

Yes, Jeff, from what I've read the changes to the Elmarit from v1 to v2 were practically identical to the changes of the Summicrons these being mainly a reduction of field-curvature and marginally higher resolving power in the corners wide open.

FWIW I had actually been using - off and on - a v2 Elmarit ASPH belonging to a good friend prior to my buying my own lens and was fortunate to be able to do a back-to-back comparison with both versions before deciding which version to choose. There was absolutely no observable difference (in my snaps) even when viewed at 300% so I went for the v1 purely because I greatly prefer the much smaller hood. OTOH I know some others who much prefer the design of the lenshood of the v2 and certainly the hood can't fall off as easily!...

Philip.

Edited April 13, 2021 by pippy

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[LarsHP]

3 hours ago, pippy said:

Really? Interesting. I, like Andreas, would like to see your original source for this information.

The V1 ASPH came out at the same time(*) as the M8 (2006) and it was produced, from the outset, with 6-bit coding marks which are only of use with digital bodies.

I would guess - and, of course, it is just a guess - that they were developed concurrently with a view that they could be used together. The M8, as we know, was a cropped-sensor camera and thus the 28 wouldn't cover the 24x36 image area of a full-frame body but, even so, I would doubt that Leica would design a new version of the 28 with a crop-sensor in mind as part of their long-term vision.

Philip.

* EDIT : From what I can discover the M8 actually came out one month before the 28 was released.

 

3 hours ago, AndreasG said:

This is new for me, I own the ASPH V1 and use it with an M10-D without any visible disadvantages.  Do you have any reliable source for the above finding?

To both above:

Okay, since I mostly looked for a Summicron-M Asph (and ended up buying version 2), I remembered that the first Summicron-M Asph came out in 2000 and made the assumption that the Elmarit-M Asph v1 was launched at about the same time. Being launched at the time of the M8, in 2006, it still may suggest that performance in the corners on full frame digital M cameras wasn't accounted for as well as in the second version. The M8 also had a super thin sensor glass. Newer full frame digital M cameras have a thicker sensor glass which means the steep angle of light towards the corners will cause more problems than on the M8. I feel confident that's why Leica decided to update both the Summicron Asph and Elmarit Asph (most likely) by designing them with a longer exit pupil.

That said, check this from description @ https://lens-db.com/leica-elmarit-m-28mm-f28-asph-2006/

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Edited April 13, 2021 by LarsHP

[Jeff S]

44 minutes ago, pippy said:

Yes, Jeff, from what I've read the changes to the Elmarit from v1 to v2 were practically identical to the changes of the Summicrons these being mainly a reduction of field-curvature and marginally higher resolving power in the corners wide open.

FWIW I had actually been using - off and on - a v2 Elmarit ASPH belonging to a good friend prior to my buying my own lens and was fortunate to be able to do a back-to-back comparison with both versions before deciding which version to choose. There was absolutely no observable difference (in my snaps) even when viewed at 300% so I went for the v1 purely because I greatly prefer the much smaller hood. OTOH I know some others who much prefer the design of the lenshood of the v2 and certainly the hood can't fall off as easily!...

Philip.

And I’m satisfied with my v.1 28 Summicron ASPH (and 35 Summicron v.1ASPH), even while I’ve migrated from film to some of the more recent digital M models.  Comes down to practical usage, which for me concludes with modest sized prints (silver or inkjet).

Jeff

Edited April 13, 2021 by Jeff S

[LarsHP]

Here's a comparison of Elmarit-M Asph v1 and v2 with Imatest resolution values.

https://in.pcmag.com/leica-elmarit-m-28mm-f28-asph-2016/126490/leica-elmarit-m-28mm-f28-asph

[pippy]

19 minutes ago, LarsHP said:

...To both above:

Okay, since I mostly looked for a Summicron-M Asph (and ended up buying version 2), I remembered that the first Summicron-M Asph came out in 2000 and made the assumption that the Elmarit-M Asph v1 was launched at about the same time.

That said, check this from description @ https://lens-db.com/leica-elmarit-m-28mm-f28-asph-2006/

No problem, Lars, but according to the link you've posted the M8 didn't / doesn't exist...

Philip.

Edited April 13, 2021 by pippy

[LarsHP]

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36 minutes ago, pippy said:

No problem, Lars, but according to the link you've posted the M8 didn't / doesn't exist...

Philip.

Right. That's odd... and it certainly may explain why they list it as a film era lens. However, the M8 and M8.2 are listed here, so they are aware that the camera exist:

https://lens-db.com/system/leica-m/

Edited April 13, 2021 by LarsHP

[pedaes]

Shaun Reids review of the new v previous versions of these lens concludes that newest isn't necessarily best and there are subtle differences to consider. Sorry cannot qoute as subscription site https://www.reidreviews.com/articleindextable.html

[pippy]

14 minutes ago, LarsHP said:

Right. That's odd... and it certainly may explain why they list it as a film era lens.

That was my thinking, too.

Philip.

[Jan Jurgensen]

Hello Peter,

You cannot go wrong with the little 28mm.

But you made the point that you are looking for a 28mm as you dont want to go wider because of the inconvenience of an extra viewfinder.

I have been using the Elmar 24mm/3.4 ASPH for years without the extra viewfinder. You just accept the entire viewfinder field of the camera.

The 24mm has been highly praized in reviews.

Jan

[Peter K]

18 hours ago, pgk said:

Simple 'rule of thumb'; if you don't 'need' (or plan to use) fast apertures, you don't need to buy a fast aperture lens. ALL the current and recent M lenses will perform extremely well at f/8~11 so you will find no advantage in buying a faster aperture lens and potentially disadvantages (higher flare from the larger glass, increased weight, larger filters to carry, as examples).

Thanks. That was just the kind of information I was looking for.

For a Leica newcomer like me, it’s all too easy (though economically burdening) to get carried away by the temptations of both Summicrons and Summiluxes regardless one’s actual needs.

So in this specific case, I will go with the Elmarit ASPH (version 1 or 2) and feel confident that I have found the perfect match for me without compromising image quality.

Thanks,

Peter.

[Peter K]

12 hours ago, Jan Jurgensen said:

Hello Peter,

You cannot go wrong with the little 28mm.

But you made the point that you are looking for a 28mm as you dont want to go wider because of the inconvenience of an extra viewfinder.

I have been using the Elmar 24mm/3.4 ASPH for years without the extra viewfinder. You just accept the entire viewfinder field of the camera.

The 24mm has been highly praized in reviews.

Jan

Hi Jan,

Ah, ok. That’s good to know since that would not be a problem to me.

I will take a look at the 24mm before making the decision.

Thanks,

Peter.

[LeicaR10]

Peter K,  The Leica 24mm Elmar f/3.8 is IMO, the most excellent M lens for landscape photography.   The lens has amazing resolution from corner to corner, nearly flat field curvature, excellent color and one of the best M lenses.  Albeit Leica only recently discontinued the lens along with several others, the 24 Elmar renders landscapes unlike any other.  It is my go to lens when I have a very challenging terrain and taking my S system would prove impractical for hiking or climbing.  My corporate clients and private collectors are very demanding for unique landscape photographs that must have the detail, rendering and capturing the mood for their requirements.  I shoot the 24 Elmar with the M10M and R and this lens renders landscapes that often far exceeds both my clients and my expectations.  But, it remains your choice and decision as to what works best for your photographs whereby the camera and lens helps you create masterpiece landscape photographs the cause the viewer to:   Stop, Look, Think and perhaps Feel something about that moment in time and your vision that you wish to express.  Just my 2 cents.  r/ Mark

[Guest]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Jan Jurgensen:

...
I have been using the Elmar 24mm/3.4 ASPH for years without the extra viewfinder. You just accept the entire viewfinder field of the camera. ...

@Jan, 
wearers of glasses shouldn't have a chance for a full view at 24mm through the rangefinder, apart from the shadowing by the lens on the right edge of the image.

[astrostl]

4 hours ago, mnutzer said:

@Jan, 
wearers of glasses shouldn't have a chance for a full view at 24mm through the rangefinder, apart from the shadowing by the lens on the right edge of the image.

Yeah, even seeing the entire 28mm frameline set in one go is tough for me with glasses.

[Ko.Fe.]

Just a friendly reminder, M240 has no dust reduction for sensor. And since you are going to use it for landscapes, it is visible as soon as sky is involved. It shouldn't be an issue if you get sensor cleaned  and only one lens in use. But changing lenses in the field is warm welcome for the dust.

 

[Jan Jurgensen]

mnutzer, I wear of glasses and have no problems using the 24mm lens as suggested.

Jan

[logan2z]

I recently purchased the 28mm Elmarit ASPH v2 and have really been enjoying it, mostly for landscapes shot on film.  I have an M-A that includes a 28mm frameline and I'm not a glasses wearer so I have no real trouble seeing the framlines, although they are obviously near the extremes of the viewfinder.  However, I do have a Leica SLOOZ that I use when shooting with the lens on my M4 and I actually prefer using the lens that way.  The reduced magnification of the SLOOZ does make it easier to see what's within the frame, at least in my experience.

[Peter K]

20 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Peter K,  The Leica 24mm Elmar f/3.8 is IMO, the most excellent M lens for landscape photography.   The lens has amazing resolution from corner to corner, nearly flat field curvature, excellent color and one of the best M lenses.  Albeit Leica only recently discontinued the lens along with several others, the 24 Elmar renders landscapes unlike any other.  It is my go to lens when I have a very challenging terrain and taking my S system would prove impractical for hiking or climbing.  My corporate clients and private collectors are very demanding for unique landscape photographs that must have the detail, rendering and capturing the mood for their requirements.  I shoot the 24 Elmar with the M10M and R and this lens renders landscapes that often far exceeds both my clients and my expectations.  But, it remains your choice and decision as to what works best for your photographs whereby the camera and lens helps you create masterpiece landscape photographs the cause the viewer to:   Stop, Look, Think and perhaps Feel something about that moment in time and your vision that you wish to express.  Just my 2 cents.  r/ Mark

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the information. I really appreciate it.

I had actually decided on the 28mm Elmarit ASPH by now based on the many positive replies in this thread. But your advice has made me think twice. Being a Canon DSLR user until recently, I have been using the 16-35 mm L lens almost exclusively for this kind of photos. And I can see now, that some of my best work actually lies somewhere between 24mm and 28mm.

So both of the Leica lenses would serve me well with regard to focal length. I will have to give it a second thought...

Thanks again for your input. Much appreciated!

Best,
Peter.

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[Peter K]

16 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

Just a friendly reminder, M240 has no dust reduction for sensor. And since you are going to use it for landscapes, it is visible as soon as sky is involved. It shouldn't be an issue if you get sensor cleaned  and only one lens in use. But changing lenses in the field is warm welcome for the dust.

 

Thanks. Yes, the M240 is a real dust collector. I have learned it the hard way and had to do a carefull sensor cleaning recently for the same reason. I will be carefull when changing lenses.

Thanks again,
Peter.