Old Leica pricing

[adan]

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On 3/21/2021 at 2:23 PM, tedd said:

At least an M2 should be a lifer, I was always worried my M6 was going to have the electronics fail (it did twice in the time I had it).

If an M6's electronics fail -  it just becomes an M2 with extra framelines anyway.

Since you got one in any case - M2s may have been cheaper at some moment in the past. But there have also been times when an M2 for €1000 would have been a very good price (depending on condition). I've seen M2s for over $US1400 (€1167) even in moderate condition.

My observation is that as the original "wide-angle, 35mm" M (with the simpler and cleaner front-window cosmetics), they usually tend to command more than an M3.

On 3/21/2021 at 9:22 AM, BradS said:

For example, it would be irrational for the price of a used M6 to exceed the price of a new MP.

Well, there are some of us who abhor the silly rewind knob, and much prefer the M4-M7 rewind crank. If I had only the option of getting an M6, or a new MP, for the same price, I'd have to go with the M6. And I might pay an extra $200 or so, just for the crank. And that is a "functional" difference - so not irrational.

But I agree it is unlikely an M6 will rise to a free-market price that high any time soon (and the new-MP price will have gone up by then as well ).

................

As to the original question - yes, there will never be any more pre-MP/M-A Leicas made (unless the rumored M6 revival turns out to be real).

A fixed supply at best (since no doubt a few meet their end every year) being chased by whatever anyone will pay.

A recipe for high prices, unless/until there is some major jolt to the market (every film manufacturer on Earth goes out of business, or a broad, deep economic slump).

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[romualdo]

The price of M6s here in Australia continue to climb - one sold very quickly on Gumtree yesterday for $Aus4000, it was advertised as near new condition. 

I think a lot of people (owner sellers) are cashing in on the M6 "boom" after seeing the demand rise for especially this model.

I bought one in 2014 for $Aus1100 here in Brisbane & sold it a year later for $1200 to fund a second hand MP (early model, 2nd batch, black paint & very nice condition) that had come up locally on Gumtree costing me the princely sum of $Aus2800.

Personally I disliked the viewfinder of the M6 due to the excessive flare - some people aren't bothered by it & some never experienced it but the difference when I got the MP was quite significant IMHO.

Edited May 4, 2021 by romualdo

[BradS]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:09 PM, adan said:

Well, there are some of us who abhor the silly rewind knob, and much prefer the M4-M7 rewind crank. If I had only the option of getting an M6, or a new MP, for the same price, I'd have to go with the M6. And I might pay an extra $200 or so, just for the crank. And that is a "functional" difference - so not irrational.

I'll trade either of my M6 for an MP any day. 

[sblitz]

All of sudden, a used M6 is $3,500  An M4 close to it -- these cameras were in the $800-$1,600 just before Covid hit. Not only that, they cannot be found! I like to look at the Leicashop website, and only M3s are available and they are $3,500 or more as well. i can get a used SL for a thousand or so less! Spoke to a used camera dealer friend of mine in NYC and he told me Hassleblads in mint condition are running at $4,500 and Mamiya 7s similarly have cracked the $3,000 range -- they too were trading for far less a little more than six months ago.

Any answers? The price certainly has not scared out any supply.

 

[LeicaR10]

Sblitz,  My friend who owns several camera stores told me since Covid hit, it appears a good number of people either took up film photography or traded their digital camera gear for film.  A lot of his Leica early M film cameras left his stores at higher prices.  (Supply and demand)  He also mentioned some have left the 35mm format and gone to medium format film or digital as well.  This could explain why used Leica S lenses are selling for higher values these days.  The owner's explanation sounds reasonable to me.  r/ Mark 

[sblitz]

Sounds reasonable as well, but what is still unanswered is so many took up film photography? And, i might add, home developing. There have been all sorts of shortages for various chemicals when before there was none. Covid did not hurt the ability to produce but, given your answer which I have no reason to doubt, that answers the developing question. But why? You can shoot digital and sit and home and play with the computer all day under quarantine. Does his think prices drop back down once everything reopens? I know no one knows, its just a question.

 

[logan2z]

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1 hour ago, sblitz said:

All of sudden, a used M6 is $3,500  An M4 close to it -- these cameras were in the $800-$1,600 just before Covid hit. Not only that, they cannot be found! I like to look at the Leicashop website, and only M3s are available and they are $3,500 or more as well. i can get a used SL for a thousand or so less! Spoke to a used camera dealer friend of mine in NYC and he told me Hassleblads in mint condition are running at $4,500 and Mamiya 7s similarly have cracked the $3,000 range -- they too were trading for far less a little more than six months ago.

Any answers? The price certainly has not scared out any supply.

 

I've certainly seen many M6s at the $3500 mark, but I can't say that I've seen any M3s/M4s at that price.   If eBay and some Leica dealers are any indication, I'm seeing the majority of M4s in the $1800-$2500 range and M3s around $1500-$2000 (depending on condition).  It seems that Leicashop is a bit overpriced.

Edited May 10, 2021 by logan2z

[Herr Barnack]

What's going on?  Supply and demand.  They aren't making any more M6 cameras.

If used M6 prices keep climbing, people are going to start buying new film MP and MA bodies instead.

[sblitz]

Yes, but why?

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

Already a thread running:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/319125-old-leica-pricing/

 

[stray cat]

23 minutes ago, sblitz said:

Yes, but why?

I 'm going to take a stab at that question Steve and propose that it might be the process that's attracting new entrants into the film sphere. While I gather that it's been one of the hallmarks of the covid era that people have been working from home more, perhaps they find they're seeing enough of their own computer during work hours, and see sufficient attraction in getting on their feet, dragging out the processing gear, then standing at a bench performing what is essentially, to many of us, a kind of mechanical therapy in those chemical steps that film processing requires. Not just that, of course - the plasticity of actual film cassettes, and the developed roll which then invites further steps, winding on film in the camera, taking light readings and whatever manual processes your particular workflow requires - all of these are removed from the digital process and perhaps that is a very large part of the attraction...

[Chuck Albertson]

People are stuck at home and looking for something crafty to do. There are certainly enough YouTube videos out of someone or other's "film journey." And film cameras are as cute as kittens, only without the litter box to clean.

[otto.f]

There won’t be one single cause of this 2000$ increase I think, and Covid won’t be the only one either. A small part of that 2000 might also be the idea that wet prints have more attraction, especially fiber based prints. And the feeling of ‘All by myself’ is stronger. The idea that the digital workflow is healthier is also relative; in the darkroom you move and stand a lot which contributes to a longer healthy life 🙂.

And maybe it's safer than bitcoins?

Edited May 10, 2021 by otto.f

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, stray cat said:

I 'm going to take a stab at that question Steve and propose that it might be the process that's attracting new entrants into the film sphere. While I gather that it's been one of the hallmarks of the covid era that people have been working from home more, perhaps they find they're seeing enough of their own computer during work hours, and see sufficient attraction in getting on their feet, dragging out the processing gear, then standing at a bench performing what is essentially, to many of us, a kind of mechanical therapy in those chemical steps that film processing requires. Not just that, of course - the plasticity of actual film cassettes, and the developed roll which then invites further steps, winding on film in the camera, taking light readings and whatever manual processes your particular workflow requires - all of these are removed from the digital process and perhaps that is a very large part of the attraction...

I think this analysis is right, not just with new entrants to film. Even for us no-longer-in-paid-employment people, covid has meant more time at a computer in zoom meetings; the attractions of something manual and without a screen are obvious. I've had a large format camera for years without doing anything about it. I'm now using it regularly, and I've dusted off my home developing skills unused in 30 years.

Edited May 10, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, sblitz said:

Yes, but why?

perhaps more people are shooting film

[Charles Morgan]

Things go up, things go down. 

I offered my beautiful M3 which had been serviced pre purchase and every shot a joy for a price £200 below foreign dealers pre VAT, none from dealers in the UK. All I got was one loon messaging me daily about how serious he was but not actually troubling me with a purchase, and had two offers that might have bought a good M3 5 years ago. But it did get 75 watchers.

I removed it the moment the fee free listing came to an end.

 

 

 

[SrMi]

The stay-at-home mode has led me to scanning my B&W negatives from 1980s. I really liked what I saw!

However, I did not contribute to the raising price of film camera, as my purchases started when they already reached their current high level ;-).

[sblitz]

On 3/22/2021 at 8:41 AM, johntobias said:

M4-2 is the current bargain body, well that and the CL ,   a good M4-2 should be just sub $1000 us   great camera too...I only sold mine to help fund my MP

 

Not sure about the M4-2 but the CL is definitely underpriced relative to the others and it is really nice small camera to use

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[sblitz]

If it was just a film issue and want of a mechanical camera of excellent quality, the Nikon F2 is not seeing the same increase, nor are old Canon or Olympus cameras. My iiif has jumped in price!

[Danner]

I recently bought a 9.5/10 M6 for US$ 2300, and today I see an 8/10 one listed for US$ 3100.  Following it to get a sense of how it sells.  Seems too high to me.  Somebody is making a profit 😉