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Firmware update: Perspective correction for the Leica M10-P, M10-R and M10 Monochrom

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scott kirkpatrick

scott kirkpatrick

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47 minutes ago, BlueIn2Red said:

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Software versions don’t normally decrease as they get newer!

What made you think that firmware was decimal?  Leica probably still has their Zuse Z5, which was entirely binary and floating point.

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LeicaS2
LeicaS2

I have now updated an M10-P reporter to this firmware. It is almost spooky how it looks in the  rear display with a distorted white rectangle moving around as one moves the angle of the camera.

SrMi
SrMi

Just heard from Leica that Adobe needs to implement missing support for M10-Monochrom.  It is expected to come with the CC update in March.

LUF Admin
LUF Admin

Leica Camera has introduced new firmware versions for several cameras from the M10 family. Leica M10-P (M10-P-3.21.3.50-CUSTOMER Download Firmware) Leica M10-R (M10-R-20.20.47.37 Download

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KEL

KEL

Posted
Posted

I find the perspective ´correction frames very useful when shooting, and would love even more if the corrections in the RAW files could be imported into C1 (which is my favorite tool). Hoping and waiting for C1 implementation.

I would even be willing to use Lightroom as interim pre-step (uncorrected RAW in, corrected RAW out, over to C1) if finally working with my M10M. Waiting, waiting...

By the way, some user experience with the new firmware M10M crashes - and so do I. Not too often, but once per photo trip in average. LiveView continues, but not possible to take picture or switch off. Always need to take battery out, then everything back to normal.

Hang said that, I am in any case very grateful to Leica to have implemented such a great feature.

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Leon_B.

Leon_B.

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On 2/5/2021 at 3:21 AM, LeicaS2 said:

SrMI,

Actually, I am having no luck with the M10M files in LR so far.

[...]

Information from Wetzlar about editing Leica M10M RAWs with Perspective Control in Adobe LR and ACR: 

  • Perspective Correction for DNG’s does not work in the current Adobe Camera RAW release yet.
  • This is expected to be resolved with the next update of Adobe Camera RAW
  • The firmware of the camera does not need an update for it 
  • That means: In the future the monochrome DNGs will also be corrected in Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop

So a little more patience please, solution is on its way ...

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Jon Warwick

Jon Warwick

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Has anyone closely compared the Leica in-camera perspective correction vs the post-processing "geometry" function that already existed in Adobe?

Clearly it appears nicer to visualise in-camera what is going on, a benefit of the Leica update.

But I'm curious if one technique has a tendency to zoom in (and hence crop) the image more than the other to get the verticals upright?

On a separate note, at least with the Adobe version..... I'm looking at an image side-by-side that i did with an M10 .....in both "original" form and "vertical correction" .....and even resized to c 35" wide, i can barely detect any quality that's lost whatsoever from the Adobe correction. Incredible really, given the amount of adjustment that was needed to get the verticals upright.

 

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microview

microview

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I find the perspective ´correction' frames very useful when shooting

 

Hmm. Initially I was impressed, but yesterday trying live view and the white framing I found it extremely fiddly and I felt you'd really need the 020 EVF for best control. Leica's pre-existing level indicator is crap when compared with the one in the Q2, if you are holding the camera away from the eyes.

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SrMi

SrMi

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7 hours ago, strohscw said:

Sounds great, wasn´t able to check it with my M10M.

Thanks for the info Edax!

For M10M, you need a future update from Adobe (March?). It does not work in the current official release.

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UliWer

UliWer

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You can try it with the M10 Monochrom, if you take your picture in jpg. The DNG-files from the Monochrom don't work in Camera Raw (yet).

Here are some examples also to compare the in-camera perspective control with  the "upright" function in Lightroom:

If you use the "upright" option in Lightroom it always cuts the top (as far as I know). With the in-camera perspective control you can decide where to cut the full frame before you take the picture, which may be helpful. 

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scott kirkpatrick

scott kirkpatrick

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4 hours ago, UliWer said:

You can try it with the M10 Monochrom, if you take your picture in jpg. The DNG-files from the Monochrom don't work in Camera Raw (yet).

Here are some examples also to compare the in-camera perspective control with  the "upright" function in Lightroom:

If you use the "upright" option in Lightroom it always cuts the top (as far as I know). With the in-camera perspective control you can decide where to cut the full frame before you take the picture, which may be helpful. 

Adobe and Leica must have decided that some natural size of the PC frame is best.  If you have the camera level and tilt down, it puts the widest part of the frame at the bottom, and cuts off the narrow part of the frame before it reaches the top.  If you were doing the perspective correction manually, you could have extended the frame area to the top of the captured pixels.  In the geometry window of Lightroom, you can move the upper endpoints that are passed along to add this area.  This may be intended to keep the restored, transformed image in a 2 to 3 proportion.  Adobe has a similar preference for 2:3 in its distortion corrections.  But since the area which will be used after the correction is now only a part of the image, there is a choice to be made.  Leica is choosing to start the image at the bottom of the frame when you are looking down, and at the top when you are looking up.  Makes sense to me, but I can change it, and sometimes do.

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sml_photo

sml_photo

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Can someone please detail the exact workflow?  I  loaded the firmware.  I took some sample photos with my M10M.  The result outside the camera and in Lightroom shows two RAW duplicate files...same image.  When I click the "Upright/Guided" buttons inside LR, I see no change to either of

the files that were taken (2 RAW copies of each). 
Why are there two RAW files?
Why are there no changes to either of the files when I click the upright/guided buttons.

I KNOW I am doing something wrong...just can't figure it out.  Thanks.

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SrMi

SrMi

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On 3/5/2021 at 2:37 PM, sml_photo said:

Can someone please detail the exact workflow?  I  loaded the firmware.  I took some sample photos with my M10M.  The result outside the camera and in Lightroom shows two RAW duplicate files...same image.  When I click the "Upright/Guided" buttons inside LR, I see no change to either of

the files that were taken (2 RAW copies of each). 
Why are there two RAW files?
Why are there no changes to either of the files when I click the upright/guided buttons.

I KNOW I am doing something wrong...just can't figure it out.  Thanks.

Perspective correction does not work with current Adobe software and M10-M (it works with M10-R). You need to wait for the CC update, coming sometimes this month.

I do not understand why you have two raw files. Probably something unrelated to perspective control.

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SrMi

SrMi

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21 hours ago, rramesh said:

Understand that the perspective values are stored in the Metadata EXIF. If so, which fields contain this information? Using an EXIF viewer I am unable to see these values.

It is stored in the XMP area. You need to use something like the command tool dng_validate.

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scott kirkpatrick

scott kirkpatrick

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To expand on SrMi's explanation, there are several ways in which data is stored in a DNG file.  Much of it is tagged information, specified as part of the TIFF data standard from the late 1990s.  EXIF tools can read that.   Some of it is manufacturer's private data, which can only be read if your have a contract with the manufacturer, as it is encrypted.  You won't get to see that.  Then there is an intermediate class of XMP tags, which are filled in to Adobe's specifications, not encrypted, but not standardized either.  Adobe and Leica seem to have created some of these for the perspective frame definition. Some tools can see them, starting with a text editor.  They contain the pitch and roll angles that the camera measures, and the four calculated corners of the PC frame, plus a few more tokens which Leica and Adobe have agreed on to specify how the image is to be handled.  Those are not all that mysterious, but other companies may have to speak to Adobe to ensure that they understand what they do and are kept informed of any changes.

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