GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[setuporg]

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I liked the term "focus creep" in digilloyd's comments.  That would make for a good version of the Radiohead song, "I'm a focus creep!":)

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[SrMi]

3 hours ago, setuporg said:

I liked the term "focus creep" in digilloyd's comments.  That would make for a good version of the Radiohead song, "I'm a focus creep!":)

I found other Fujis (e.g. X-T4) to have issues with focus stability as well. Jim Kasson wrote: "... Fuji GFX focus by wire lenses spontaneously change where they are focused with no provocation.."

[setuporg]

31 minutes ago, SrMi said:

other Fujis (e.g. X-T4) to have issues with focus stability as well

That worries me!  Do the GFX100S users here experience that?

[aksclix]

I don’t understand what to infer from these statements.. gfx has been a proven entity.. it’s got the best AF in medium format systems today. IQ is beyond stellar.. there are quirks with every system and I personally haven’t encountered bad images (unless it was my own error) from the thousands of images I’ve shot when I had my 50r.. my 100s hasn’t had a field day yet unfortunately but from random shooting around the house and neighborhood I do not see any issues with its focusing.. 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by aksclix

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, aksclix said:

I don’t understand what to infer from these statements.. gfx has been a proven entity.. it’s got the best AF in medium format systems today. IQ is beyond stellar.. there are quirks with every system and I personally haven’t encountered bad images (unless it was my own error) from the thousands of images I’ve shot when I had my 50r.. my 100s hasn’t had a field day yet unfortunately but from random shooting around the house and neighborhood I do not see any issues with its focusing.. 

 

Jim Kasson has documented the issue in details. You do not see it until you test for it properly. What Jim's result mean to me is that I do refocus or recheck focus before shooting, even if nothing has changed from last shot.

Here is a thread on DPR: GFX FBW lens focus instability

[aksclix]

54 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Jim Kasson has documented the issue in details. You do not see it until you test for it properly. What Jim's result mean to me is that I do refocus or recheck focus before shooting, even if nothing has changed from last shot.

Here is a thread on DPR: GFX FBW lens focus instability

thanks for the link.. skimmed thru it quite a bit.. he himself says this is a controlled experiment and most wont notice it or something to that effect? 

without proper image samples demonstrating the issue and only mtf charts it's going to only scientifically prove something, not practically...  I haven't shot anything with my gfx beyond even 3 mins I guess.. I once did a interval shooting to capture lightning but even that was under 5 mins maybe.. don't remember

ill try and test this when I can with all my gf lenses on the 100s with > 10min exposure.. 

[SrMi]

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3 hours ago, aksclix said:

thanks for the link.. skimmed thru it quite a bit.. he himself says this is a controlled experiment and most wont notice it or something to that effect? 

without proper image samples demonstrating the issue and only mtf charts it's going to only scientifically prove something, not practically...  I haven't shot anything with my gfx beyond even 3 mins I guess.. I once did a interval shooting to capture lightning but even that was under 5 mins maybe.. don't remember

ill try and test this when I can with all my gf lenses on the 100s with > 10min exposure.. 

The issue was here from the beginning of the GFX series, but I have not heard anyone complaining when shooting. It is good to be aware that it could happen.

Edited April 7, 2021 by SrMi

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, aksclix said:

thanks for the link.. skimmed thru it quite a bit.. he himself says this is a controlled experiment and most wont notice it or something to that effect? 

without proper image samples demonstrating the issue and only mtf charts it's going to only scientifically prove something, not practically...  I haven't shot anything with my gfx beyond even 3 mins I guess.. I once did a interval shooting to capture lightning but even that was under 5 mins maybe.. don't remember

ill try and test this when I can with all my gf lenses on the 100s with > 10min exposure.. 

wouldn't one set the  camera to manual focus for long exposures ?

[SrMi]

34 minutes ago, frame-it said:

wouldn't one set the  camera to manual focus for long exposures ?

It happens with manual focus as well.

[frame-it]

9 minutes ago, SrMi said:

It happens with manual focus as well.

interesting

[aksclix]

4 hours ago, frame-it said:

wouldn't one set the  camera to manual focus for long exposures ?

it depends.. for focus at infinity I do manual.. sometimes if I can attain focus easily on a subject I do AF too.. completely dependent on the situation

[frame-it]

8 minutes ago, aksclix said:

it depends.. for focus at infinity I do manual.. sometimes if I can attain focus easily on a subject I do AF too.. completely dependent on the situation

so to get back on track..how does your gfx100s AF speed and accuracy compare with the Leica S007/x1d ?

[aksclix]

4 minutes ago, frame-it said:

so to get back on track..how does your gfx100s AF speed and accuracy compare with the Leica S007/x1d ?

its not comparable.. GFX is ahead by a distance... compose and re-focus, near/far is quick with GFX 100s.. X1D is 2nd.. with challenging lighting, S007 definitely hunts for focus.. and third in terms of AF speed.. 
Accuracy with face detect on worked better in GFX for me.. without that, I missed locking focus on faces a few times.. shooting fully wide open that is.. I only have the 90 xcd lens and I haven't missed focus with that.. with S007 I have had some trouble tracking moving subjects.. maybe its me.. I never had these issues with D810 or D4s few years ago.. 

[thighslapper]

13 hours ago, SrMi said:

Jim Kasson has documented the issue in details. You do not see it until you test for it properly. What Jim's result mean to me is that I do refocus or recheck focus before shooting, even if nothing has changed from last shot.

Here is a thread on DPR: GFX FBW lens focus instability

I would point out that the focus rings on the GF lenses have minimal resistance and move with even the lightest touch, so it is very easy to inadvertently shift focus. With my Lumix S1R+ Leica 24-90 any fiddling with filters or touching the lens can shift focus even without obviously touching anything focus related. For landscape+tripod with back button focus I've got into the habit of rechecking focus ANY time I touch the camera, tripod or lens, no matter how lightly or transiently except for pressing the shutter. I've had some disastrous experiences from assuming focus is still OK when taking a sequence of shots. Of course the last shot is the one where you have got all the parameters and composition perfect ..... The GSX100s + lenses had shown none of the issues mention by Kasson so far, but I don't tend to use fast apertures where any errors would be more obvious. 

[BernardC]

On 4/6/2021 at 4:58 PM, SrMi said:

I found other Fujis (e.g. X-T4) to have issues with focus stability as well. Jim Kasson wrote: "... Fuji GFX focus by wire lenses spontaneously change where they are focused with no provocation.."

That's an issue I had with a previous 50MP Fuji: it wouldn't focus on the same spot twice. On top of that, the EVF was very difficult to focus manually. I understand that the second issue has been minimized in their later cameras.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

That's an issue I had with a previous 50MP Fuji: it wouldn't focus on the same spot twice. On top of that, the EVF was very difficult to focus manually. I understand that the second issue has been minimized in their later cameras.

The issue discussed by Jim is different: "The lens shifted focus, even though no one was touching the camera or the lens ... Fuji GFX focus by wire lenses spontaneously change where they are focused with no provocation. "

[setuporg]

On 4/6/2021 at 11:58 PM, aksclix said:

its not comparable.. GFX is ahead by a distance..

I wonder if GFX100S is that much faster than 007?  In my experience, 007 is blazing fast compared to X1D and is comparable to SL2.  It's certainly fast enough for kids and pets.  It achieves a single focus move or no refocusing at all half the time because it knows it's in focus.  All of the lenses are quite fast to focus.

[Succisa75]

12 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I wonder if GFX100S is that much faster than 007?  In my experience, 007 is blazing fast compared to X1D and is comparable to SL2.  It's certainly fast enough for kids and pets.  It achieves a single focus move or no refocusing at all half the time because it knows it's in focus.  All of the lenses are quite fast to focus.

It’s much faster than the 007. I find it as fast as the S1R but with better and faster AF. 
 

 

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[aksclix]

28 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I wonder if GFX100S is that much faster than 007?  In my experience, 007 is blazing fast compared to X1D and is comparable to SL2.  It's certainly fast enough for kids and pets.  It achieves a single focus move or no refocusing at all half the time because it knows it's in focus.  All of the lenses are quite fast to focus.

Oh cmon.. S being blazing fast? Not sure I’ve heard of that before  hope you’re talking about “AF” only.. x1d AF is faster but much slower in other aspects. gfx 100s on the other hand is certainly “blazing” fast! S can seem fast at times in good light but hardly accurate.. this again is from my (limited) experience with the gear I have.. don’t know if lenses that have new motors work faster 

[setuporg]

In my experience, alongside SL2 and X1D, I feel that S 007 is really fast to focus with its AF.  I never lost a shot waiting for it to focus as with X1D.  It's not immediate but it is usually a single motion with 24,30,35,45,70,100,180, and the zoom.  The only slow lens is 120 because its donkey protrusion has to extend or retract a lot.:). The TS is manual only.

Edited April 8, 2021 by setuporg