GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[Simone_DF]

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7 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Well unfortunately the Perspective Correction was given to the M cameras first while the SL2 which is touted as a professional camera doesn’t get it currently. 
 

don’t quite understand the thought process on that, but maybe there will be a valid explanation 

Does the update contain only Perspective Correction? In that case they probably had a smaller team working on it while the rest of the team is working hard on the next SL2s firmware updates, which may have PC included. 

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[Succisa75]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Does the update contain only Perspective Correction? In that case they probably had a smaller team working on it while the rest of the team is working hard on the next SL2s firmware updates, which may have PC included. 

Here in lies the prob as others have mentioned with the SL line up. If Leica isn’t aggressive with this system, providing updates and fixes in a timely manner then how will they build a bigger customer base when you have cameras like the GFX100S, Sony A1, Canon R5 etc etc that are better in almost every way minus the build quality and branding. 

Personally I was ready to get an SL2 but the lack of updates held me back. The SL2-S is also enticing, but I don’t want to buy a camera for what it may have from a future update.  That’s like buying a sports car that only goes 80kph but promises of the car getting full power 6 months from now. Might as well wait. 
 

apologies for the rant, but as a fan it’s unfortunate to see the SL series not becoming what it’s capable of. Hope Leica fixes this soon. 

[aksclix]

1 hour ago, Succisa75 said:

Here in lies the prob as others have mentioned with the SL line up. If Leica isn’t aggressive with this system, providing updates and fixes in a timely manner then how will they build a bigger customer base when you have cameras like the GFX100S, Sony A1, Canon R5 etc etc that are better in almost every way minus the build quality and branding. 

Personally I was ready to get an SL2 but the lack of updates held me back. The SL2-S is also enticing, but I don’t want to buy a camera for what it may have from a future update.  That’s like buying a sports car that only goes 80kph but promises of the car getting full power 6 months from now. Might as well wait. 
 

apologies for the rant, but as a fan it’s unfortunate to see the SL series not becoming what it’s capable of. Hope Leica fixes this soon. 

Even without it, like people are fans of the S, if Leica could make some compelling glasses for the SL that should take care of the shortcomings.. let the glasses sell the brand! With what canon is doing with their unique 28-70 f2, 100-500 with incredible close focusing capability and the rumored 70-135 f2.. if that comes out most people are going to want a Canon!! 
 

SL system is 5 years old and the bare minimum choices of lenses they have now is just sad! The 21, 24, 28 should have been there 2 years ago IMO!! If they could think of big lenses for the R system then why not the SL? I hope they get there some day sooner or later!! 

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Here in lies the prob as others have mentioned with the SL line up. If Leica isn’t aggressive with this system, providing updates and fixes in a timely manner then how will they build a bigger customer base when you have cameras like the GFX100S, Sony A1, Canon R5 etc etc that are better in almost every way minus the build quality and branding. 

Personally I was ready to get an SL2 but the lack of updates held me back. The SL2-S is also enticing, but I don’t want to buy a camera for what it may have from a future update.  That’s like buying a sports car that only goes 80kph but promises of the car getting full power 6 months from now. Might as well wait. 
 

apologies for the rant, but as a fan it’s unfortunate to see the SL series not becoming what it’s capable of. Hope Leica fixes this soon. 

I don't quite get the fixation on updates.  Somehow this appears to be a touchstone for quality. To me an update means that the manufacturer did not get it quite right in the first place, thus the best product will have the least updates.

[jaapv]

Might the explanation be that Leica sees in-camera perspective correction as not fully professional? After all, an advanced photographer will be able to visualize perspective distortion without viewfinder aids and will prefer to correct on a large screen during postprocessing.

 

12 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Well unfortunately the Perspective Correction was given to the M cameras first while the SL2 which is touted as a professional camera doesn’t get it currently. 
 

don’t quite understand the thought process on that, but maybe there will be a valid explanation 

 

[Succisa75]

8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I don't quite get the fixation on updates.  Somehow this appears to be a touchstone for quality. To me an update means that the manufacturer did not get it quite right in the first place, thus the best product will have the least updates.

Perhaps, but this was one of the selling points Leica was promoting at the launch of the SL2. Paraphrasing here but essentially they were saying that one reasons to invest in the SL2 is that Leica constantly updates the camera like the SL for example. 

I for one appreciate updates as I see it that a manufacturer is constantly looking to improve their product thus making that investment worth while  

Leica did a great job with the SL in that regard, but it seems to not be the case thus far with the SL2  

As for lenses, not sure what the hold up is on the 20 plus mm range, but luckily we have the L Mount alliance which has improved the lineup greatly 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Succisa75

[Succisa75]

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1 minute ago, jaapv said:

Might the explanation be that Leica sees in-camera perspective correction as not fully professional? After all, an advanced photographer will be able to visualize perspective distortion without viewfinder aids and will prefer to correct on a large screen during postprocessing.

 

 

Respectfully disagree. Then why the need for tilt shift lenses? 

[jaapv]

14 minutes ago, Succisa75 said:

Respectfully disagree. Then why the need for tilt shift lenses? 

That is something completely different. It is impossible to fully simulate a tilt-shift lens in postprocessing, especially if it is used to create a composite.

 

15 minutes ago, Succisa75 said:

 As for lenses, not sure what the hold up is on the 20 plus mm range, but luckily with have the L Mount alliance which has improved the lineup greatly

I see your point about lenses, but OTOH the SL series sensors are optimized to take M lenses, and there is a large choice in the shorter focal lengths and wide apertures.

[SrMi]

49 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Might the explanation be that Leica sees in-camera perspective correction as not fully professional? After all, an advanced photographer will be able to visualize perspective distortion without viewfinder aids and will prefer to correct on a large screen during postprocessing.

Visualizing perspective corrections is error-prone, regardless of experience. An exact framing is much better. The framing lines can also used as a nice leveling tool.

Perspective correction, once stored in the DNG, is optional. It can be used as a guidance and all four guidance lines can be modified to suit. The original DNG is preserved.

Edited January 31, 2021 by SrMi

[Simone_DF]

8 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

Personally I was ready to get an SL2 but the lack of updates held me back. The SL2-S is also enticing, but I don’t want to buy a camera for what it may have from a future update.  That’s like buying a sports car that only goes 80kph but promises of the car getting full power 6 months from now. Might as well wait. 

The update for the SL2-S should be released in March, and allegedly the same update will be released for the SL2 a couple of months later. I'm pretty sure that any improvement we'll see on the SL2-S we'll also see on the SL2 minus some video improvements specific to the SL2-S. Leica is not stupid and it won't doom their flagship after less than 2 years on the market.  

[Simone_DF]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

I don't quite get the fixation on updates.  Somehow this appears to be a touchstone for quality. To me an update means that the manufacturer did not get it quite right in the first place, thus the best product will have the least updates.

Unfortunately the trend of the last 10 years shows that the current mindset is "ship now, fix later". This applies to basically all IT industry, with of course a few notable exceptions.

[hillavoider]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

The update for the SL2-S should be released in March, and allegedly the same update will be released for the SL2 a couple of months later. I'm pretty sure that any improvement we'll see on the SL2-S we'll also see on the SL2 minus some video improvements specific to the SL2-S. Leica is not stupid and it won't doom their flagship after less than 2 years on the market.  

LOL Leica are not stupid..... 😂
You are 100% right 

we are stupid, well I can tell you categorically that I am for buying a lemon 🍋 SL2 

[Simone_DF]

16 minutes ago, hillavoider said:

we are stupid, well I can tell you categorically that I am for buying a lemon 🍋 SL2 

Why lemon? Apart from the terrible AF, for the few weeks I had one I found it a very good camera

[Succisa75]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

The update for the SL2-S should be released in March, and allegedly the same update will be released for the SL2 a couple of months later. I'm pretty sure that any improvement we'll see on the SL2-S we'll also see on the SL2 minus some video improvements specific to the SL2-S. Leica is not stupid and it won't doom their flagship after less than 2 years on the market.  

Prob is the two sensors are different architecture. The SL2-S is a BSI sensor where the SL2 isn’t. So the firmware update coming for the S might be unique to it. 
From what I understand there was no mention of an SL2 update thus far. 

[toyfel]

8 hours ago, jaapv said:

but OTOH the SL series sensors are optimized to take M lenses, and there is a large choice in the shorter focal lengths and wide apertures.

Really? Go to a Leica dealer and ask for a new 24mm M-lens.

[jaapv]

I wouldn't. Too expensive. I would buy a mint used one...

[LocalHero1953]

This thread seems to have become an outlet for all those suffering with buyers' remorse.
Just to reset the balance a bit: the SL2-S does exactly what I wanted it to do. Ditto the lenses.
Hey ho, that's life in all it's rich variety, I suppose.

[jaapv]

  Leica owners are a spectacle to behold! One day they a fighting bitterly to have Video removed from a camera, next day they are complaining equally bitterly that the Video is not good enough.

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Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Succisa75]

2 minutes ago, jaapv said:

  Leica owners are a spectacle to behold! One day they a fighting bitterly to have Video removed from the camera, next day they are complaining equally bitterly that the Video is not good enough.

I think it just comes down to having a camera that is competitive with what’s out there. Owning a Leica is an investment, but at the same time you want to maximise that investment. The M is unique and no one can touch it. The Q as well. The SL2 and S have such great potential,  but if the community doesn’t push for it to be its best then less and less people will purchase in the future. The end result won’t be optimal for all fans of the Leica. 

[jaapv]

And the CL is the best of all Leica worlds for me. Leica does not compete, they offer cameras for connoisseurs. It is impossible to compete in a David-Goliath situation, it is a matter of finding niches. Leica's product palette reflects that.