GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[beewee]

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6 hours ago, aksclix said:

SL2 is not priced out of reach when you consider the A7r4 introductory price and the A9II, R5 etc.. 

I think the body itself is not priced too far out of reach. However, if there was no L-mount alliance, the price of building a lens kit would be pushing it for the vast majority of people.

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[aksclix]

25 minutes ago, beewee said:

I think the body itself is not priced too far out of reach. However, if there was no L-mount alliance, the price of building a lens kit would be pushing it for the vast majority of people.

Sigma the savior as you said.. Panasonic S pro is not far behind Leica glass in my opinion.. at half price

Edited February 8, 2021 by aksclix

[padam]

7 hours ago, aksclix said:

Sigma the savior as you said.. Panasonic S pro is not far behind Leica glass in my opinion.. at half price

One thing which I really don't understand about this whole L-Mount "Alliance" system is this: Panasonic and Leica cameras have a different cover glass on the sensor.

So if you mix up lenses you end up degrading the performance to an extent, which is kind of annoying if you decided to invest this much in the first place.
There are also other issues regarding Sigma lenses with Panasonic bodies, at least with the old ones which were EF-mount originally. They generally don't always function as well as Panasonic lenses.

So after you kind of "cross off" these compromised options, you really don't have a lot of lenses left to choose from for a particular body...

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, padam said:

Panasonic and Leica cameras have a different cover glass on the sensor.

So if you mix up lenses you end up degrading the performance to an extent, which is kind of annoying if you decided to invest this much in the first place.

I'm not sure the cover glass makes a huge difference. The L-Mount specification probably provides a range of cover glass thickness, and Panasonic's cameras behave as-if they have relatively thin cover glass, compared to the other major systems (as does the Sigma fp).

I think that the main difference in performance is due to differences in processing. Each camera is optimized for own-brand lenses first (with alliance lenses covered by firmware updates).

Is that a problem? I think it's kind of nice that each brand has its own personality. The differences aren't huge, but they are noticeable, especially when it comes to colour. Sigma did some interesting things with the fp, and no doubt their Foveon camera will be even more special. Leica has a company look across the M, SL and S systems, which most of us here enjoy. Panasonic has done a great job of matching their L-Mount colour science to their professional video cameras. Arguably, you get more choice than you would with Nikon, Canon or Sony.

[Simone_DF]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:17 PM, BernardC said:

Panasonic started at the high-end. They knew what they were doing. Now they offer the best all-rounder entry-level full-frame, and the 20-60 is an outstanding kit lens. They also have a series of smaller/cheaper lenses.

 

Most of your concerns reflect where we stood over a year ago: "the S2 doesn't have multishot, doesn't communicate well with some L-mount lenses, Panasonic has no entry-level, Leica has the most expensive cameras on the market." In a way, this shows how much initial impressions are hard to shake, especially when they are continuously reinforced by the usual advertising-supported sources.

It looks like we have the latest Japanese full frame camera stats for 2020.

As of December, Panasonic has only the 2.8% of the camera market in Japan.

In case you're wondering, Panasonic is the blue line. Sony is the brown line, Canon red, Nikon yellow, Sigma is the grey and at the very very bottom we have Pentax.

Just to stress this again, these stats are for the Japanese market, numbers may be different for the rest of the world, and the stats are for the full frame segment, no APS-C or medium format, and that's why you don't see Fuji.

It looks like Panasonic gained some momentum with the S5 but not as much as they were expecting? But at least they are on the correct path now, ie smaller bodies, smaller lenses, a decent kit lens and an attempt to fix the AF.

https://www.bcnretail.com/market/detail/20210131_210750.html

 

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[Succisa75]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

It looks like we have the latest Japanese full frame camera stats for 2020.

As of December, Panasonic has only the 2.8% of the camera market in Japan.

In case you're wondering, Panasonic is the blue line. Sony is the brown line, Canon red, Nikon yellow, Sigma is the grey and at the very very bottom we have Pentax.

Just to stress this again, these stats are for the Japanese market, numbers may be different for the rest of the world, and the stats are for the full frame segment, no APS-C or medium format, and that's why you don't see Fuji.

It looks like Panasonic gained some momentum with the S5 but not as much as they were expecting? But at least they are on the correct path now, ie smaller bodies, smaller lenses, a decent kit lens and an attempt to fix the AF.

https://www.bcnretail.com/market/detail/20210131_210750.html

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Thanks for this. Some don’t realise what the camera market is like for certain Brands. Sigma for example does ok in Japan with the FP, outside of Japan it’s not doing as well.

Hope Panasonic updates the S line in 2021. They are really nice cameras to use. 

[aksclix]

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1 hour ago, Succisa75 said:

Thanks for this. Some don’t realise what the camera market is like for certain Brands. Sigma for example does ok in Japan with the FP, outside of Japan it’s not doing as well.

Hope Panasonic updates the S line in 2021. They are really nice cameras to use. 

I got a great deal on the S1R as well and the grip is just too good! The best in all the cameras I've used

the post focus is something that is simply out of the world! 1000 times better than what Lytro ever wanted to be

[Succisa75]

46 minutes ago, aksclix said:

I got a great deal on the S1R as well and the grip is just too good! The best in all the cameras I've used

the post focus is something that is simply out of the world! 1000 times better than what Lytro ever wanted to be

One of the most underrated cameras I feel. If you were one of the lucky few to get it at those open box prices it’s a steal for the features and IQ. 

[setuporg]

1 hour ago, aksclix said:

the post focus is something that is simply out of the world! 1000 times better than what Lytro ever wanted to be

Could SL2 possibly do that?

[aksclix]

39 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Could SL2 possibly do that?

Don’t think so.. maybe in the future or maybe not 🤔

it’s not such a difficult process anyway and when you do it the regular way we can retain the higher resolution 

[LocalHero1953]

To be clear ref post-focus: the S1R does focus stacking, using multiple images, like many other cameras (just not Leica); the Lytro used light field technology - I don't think anyone else now does this in mainstream photography.

Edited February 9, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[aksclix]

33 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

To be clear ref post-focus: the S1R does focus stacking, using multiple images, like many other cameras (just not Leica); the Lytro used light field technology - I don't think anyone else now does this in mainstream photography.

yes I am aware but technology/technicality aside, in gist what Lytro tried to achieve was capture first and focus later if I am not wrong.. Their images were not good! I had the Illum but sold it and I still have the original camera that looks like a cuboid..haven't touched it in years

I wan't aware other cameras did that too.. a quick google search tells me only Olympus is the other brand that has it.. it's M43 anyway.. so this feature is a really cool one to have in FF. Macro shots are much easier.. I didn't know even Panasonic did this until I bought an S1R couple of months ago.. they've had it for years apparently 

[Simone_DF]

7 hours ago, aksclix said:

yes I am aware but technology/technicality aside, in gist what Lytro tried to achieve was capture first and focus later if I am not wrong.. Their images were not good! I had the Illum but sold it and I still have the original camera that looks like a cuboid..haven't touched it in years

I wan't aware other cameras did that too.. a quick google search tells me only Olympus is the other brand that has it.. it's M43 anyway.. so this feature is a really cool one to have in FF. Macro shots are much easier.. I didn't know even Panasonic did this until I bought an S1R couple of months ago.. they've had it for years apparently 

Not sure about the S1R but Olympus has hand held focus stacking thanks to IBIS. 

[SrMi]

IMO:

Focus bracketing is a necessary feature, and I hope Leica will add it to its SL cameras. On the other hand, in-camera focus stacking is not very useful. AFAIK, all cameras with in-camera focus stacking generate only JPGs and have a limited number of shots. For best results, focus stacking should be done on the computer (Helicon, Zerene).

[setuporg]

OK now I feel like this is something I really want because I was a fan of Illum, and the fact we have this L Alliance with a supposedly big brother camera but it lacks what a small sister got.  I've also found out that X1D got focus stacking in the summer last year!  I'm assuming not hand-held.  I want it in SL2!  Is it handheld-able in S1R?

[aksclix]

8 minutes ago, setuporg said:

OK now I feel like this is something I really want because I was a fan of Illum, and the fact we have this L Alliance with a supposedly big brother camera but it lacks what a small sister got.  I've also found out that X1D got focus stacking in the summer last year!  I'm assuming not hand-held.  I want it in SL2!  Is it handheld-able in S1R?

Yes, of course you can hand hold it while it takes the short 6K or 4K clip.. which can be stacked with 2 different options the camera provides.. 1) auto merging 2) range merging.. which lets you select different focus points to merge.. if you hand hold the shot obviously not all pictures are aligned naturally but the camera takes care of the alignment when you do the auto merge.. 

[aksclix]

13 minutes ago, setuporg said:

OK now I feel like this is something I really want because I was a fan of Illum, and the fact we have this L Alliance with a supposedly big brother camera but it lacks what a small sister got.  I've also found out that X1D got focus stacking in the summer last year!  I'm assuming not hand-held.  I want it in SL2!  Is it handheld-able in S1R?

Found this on YouTube.. hope that illustration helps 

https://youtu.be/p7tWxzorfOM

 

[setuporg]

I'm surprised we're not all switching to S1R yet!  Or is S2R around the corner?

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[aksclix]

20 minutes ago, setuporg said:

I'm surprised we're not all switching to S1R yet!  Or is S2R around the corner?

oh I don't see anyone switching their SL2s for S1R.. I definitely wouldn't.. I love the SL2 too much despite its debatable limitations. 

S1R was priced awfully high to begin with.. S5 would be a great compact alternative and it comes at a great price used from time to time at B&H with the 20-60 lens which is also phenomenal for a kit lens.. 
 

S2R maybe in the works but I don't see it in the near future.. they've had rumors of the S lenses for several months and nothing is announced yet.. production rate is just too slow! Anyway, if their target is long term win over a win every year then it's all good

S1R or S5 would be good to get in the used market.. even the S1 I think but I have heard of some sensor dust issues? I was in fact looking for an S5 but ended up getting an S1R because of the good deal.. with 47MP I could use my TL lenses on the S1R and still get a good 20MP out of it

 

[Succisa75]

1 hour ago, setuporg said:

I'm surprised we're not all switching to S1R yet!  Or is S2R around the corner?

If you look at the specs of the S1R vs SL2 which are basically the same camera, you wonder why Leica omitted so many software features.