GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[LocalHero1953]

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9 hours ago, LD_50 said:

I don’t see the SL2 or SL2-S as being the top model. 

What!!! You mean pixels and price don't determine which is the top camera these days????

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[aksclix]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

What!!! You mean pixels and price don't determine which is the top camera these days????

Not the pixels count but pricing for sure is synonymous with flagship or “top of the line” cameras.. that has always been the case right? why only these days? 

 

[LD_50]

7 minutes ago, aksclix said:

Not the pixels count but pricing for sure is synonymous with flagship or “top of the line” cameras.. that has always been the case right? why only these days? 

 

Price may indicate “flagship” from a marketing standpoint, but not the top of the line for a given use case. 

When I was shooting Nikon the D# models were flagships and most expensive, but definitely not best for landscape shooting as they were lower resolution and much heavier with dual grips than the D### series. Canon was similar with the 1D series compared to their high resolution bodies. 

Another example would be the Q2 and Q2 Monochrom. Different use cases, neither is top of the line over the other in my opinion.

The SL2 and SL2-S exist in parallel for me as well. Each offers some advantages for a particular use case. I chose the SL2-S because it fit mine better. 

 

[aksclix]

14 minutes ago, LD_50 said:

Price may indicate “flagship” from a marketing standpoint, but not the top of the line for a given use case. 

When I was shooting Nikon the D# models were flagships and most expensive, but definitely not best for landscape shooting as they were lower resolution and much heavier with dual grips than the D### series. Canon was similar with the 1D series compared to their high resolution bodies. 

Another example would be the Q2 and Q2 Monochrom. Different use cases, neither is top of the line over the other in my opinion.

The SL2 and SL2-S exist in parallel for me as well. Each offers some advantages for a particular use case. I chose the SL2-S because it fit mine better. 

 

Got it.. from that perspective, yes, “top of the line” is very subjective 

Sony a1 might just be the first do-it-all camera then.. 

[Succisa75]

21 minutes ago, aksclix said:

Got it.. from that perspective, yes, “top of the line” is very subjective 

Sony a1 might just be the first do-it-all camera then.. 

Yeah the A1 is. I used it for a week, besides the camera design which I feel could be updated, from a tech and feature viewpoint it’s a year or year plus beyond what others are doing. 

[aksclix]

30 minutes ago, Succisa75 said:

Yeah the A1 is. I used it for a week, besides the camera design which I feel could be updated, from a tech and feature viewpoint it’s a year or year plus beyond what others are doing. 

I am sure it is.. when the a9 was launched, it was again ahead of its time.. 

their FF bodies have been the most compact ones and they increased the size with a7rIV.. I actually still do like the a7r II and III sizes.. tiny and packs a huge punch! Removable grips are better if pinky finger needs a grip too but that’s just my preference.. 

[Succisa75]

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Just now, aksclix said:

I am sure it is.. when the a9 was launched, it was again ahead of its time.. 

their FF bodies have been the most compact ones and they increased the size with a7rIV.. I actually still do like the a7r II and III sizes.. tiny and packs a huge punch! Removable grips are better if pinky finger needs a grip too but that’s just my preference.. 

This is like the A7RIV. But feels a little more substantial. They set the bar again for hybrids. Dream camera would be SL2 build and Sony performance hahaha 

[Prosophos]

On 1/28/2021 at 1:26 AM, setuporg said:

Folks -- with the GFX100S announced today, that costs exactly as much as the SL2, and the 80mm/f1.7 lens, do you think we'll see domination by Fuji of both the FF segment and the MF one?

I haven't read through the pages of responses -- and I don't know whether Fuji will achieve "domination", to use the wording of the original question -- but I will be picking up a GFX100S.  Up until its announcement, I was seriously considering the SL2-S.

I would never choose either of these as a replacement for my Leica M camera (the rangefinder is Leica's killer app, so to speak), but in the mirrorless class, the Fuji is difficult to ignore.

―Peter.

 

[Succisa75]

47 minutes ago, Prosophos said:

I haven't read through the pages of responses -- and I don't know whether Fuji will achieve "domination", to use the wording of the original question -- but I will be picking up a GFX100S.  Up until its announcement, I was seriously considering the SL2-S.

I would never choose either of these as a replacement for my Leica M camera (the rangefinder is Leica's killer app, so to speak), but in the mirrorless class, the Fuji is difficult to ignore.

―Peter.

 

This will be a decision many will come across. The M is a and always will be the M. It’s lineage and illustrious history is cemented in the photographic world.  The SL line in its current form is still new and the loyalty isn’t as strong as it is with the M.  

But on a positive note, let’s see how these rumoured updates improve the camera system.

[aksclix]

24 minutes ago, Succisa75 said:

This will be a decision many will come across. The M is a and always will be the M. It’s lineage and illustrious history is cemented in the photographic world.  The SL line in its current form is still new and the loyalty isn’t as strong as it is with the M.  

But on a positive note, let’s see how these rumoured updates improve the camera system.

True.. I plan on stepping into the world of rangefinders with a used M sometime later this year.. I wanted to get it last year but priorities changed and I wanted the SL2 

[Mr.Q]

2 hours ago, Prosophos said:

I haven't read through the pages of responses -- and I don't know whether Fuji will achieve "domination", to use the wording of the original question -- but I will be picking up a GFX100S.  Up until its announcement, I was seriously considering the SL2-S.

I would never choose either of these as a replacement for my Leica M camera (the rangefinder is Leica's killer app, so to speak), but in the mirrorless class, the Fuji is difficult to ignore.

―Peter.

 

Yeah I agree, for me the Q and M cameras are what makes me stay with Leica. 

[SJH]

On 2/22/2021 at 1:45 AM, Prosophos said:

I haven't read through the pages of responses -- and I don't know whether Fuji will achieve "domination", to use the wording of the original question -- but I will be picking up a GFX100S.  Up until its announcement, I was seriously considering the SL2-S.

I would never choose either of these as a replacement for my Leica M camera (the rangefinder is Leica's killer app, so to speak), but in the mirrorless class, the Fuji is difficult to ignore.

―Peter.

 

I was just viewing one well known UK retailer who now has 7 used SL2’s for sale and 7 SL’s. Now whilst the SL2 figures are not exactly huge it’s unusual for a Leica camera that’s only just over a year old from launch. Equally I gather Leica has seen fair ‘traffic’ for SL2 trade in’s for SL2-S’s.

The retailer above is also a dealer for Fuji, Canon and Sony so I can only assume people have gone to them to change for one of these camera’s. Having read through many of these posts I don’t think the Sony A1 is probably the camera they’re all changing for as people knew the relative AF performance to say an A9II when they bought it. The Canon R5 has been around for a little while now and the SL2 used ‘surge’ has only come about over the last few weeks, so I assume it’s most likely the GFX100’s. Twice the resolution, probably slightly better AF, wide range of lenses, good ergonomics and similar price - you can see the attraction going back to the OP.

I’ve been endeavouring to point out through my post’s above that whilst many people remain delighted with their SL2’s, Leica has a very tough challenge on it’s hands now in this segment acquiring new users after only a year,  given the timing of the release based upon the S1R sensor and AF. It strikes me as a very similar position funny enough Fuji found themselves in with the XH1 when shortly afterwards the A7III was released for similar money. The XH1 was a really good camera (great build, EVF etc) but ‘stretched’ dated tech (except for the IBIS) which was exposed with the release of their own XT3 (perhaps the SL2-S equivalent) and the new Sony at a similar price point.

If you say have an M or a Q you might well chose the SL2-S (more of a hybrid and a firmware update promised with a approx date unlike the SL2) or just go straight to the GFX100’s. If you don’t have any Leica equipment well you have far more choice in early 21 than you did in 20 at the same price point. For me I’m glad I swapped out my SL2 for an SL2-S recently as only after a week or so it seems to me to be funny enough an ‘upgraded’ version of my SL2. I’ll see how I get along for my user cases and if the SL2-S is up for it then there will be no need for the GFX100’s, however, that 100mb resolution/performance for the price is tempting.....and getting back to the OP Fuji have always in my mind come up second in the rankings for me in terms of the ergonomics and build quality to Leica and ahead of the other main brands (with the exception of the GFX100 as opposed to the new S version!!). Interesting times for us all

Edited February 23, 2021 by SJH

[Succisa75]

30 minutes ago, SJH said:

I was just viewing one well known UK retailer who now has 7 used SL2’s for sale and 7 SL’s. Now whilst the SL2 figures are not exactly huge it’s unusual for a Leica camera that’s only just over a year old from launch. Equally I gather Leica has seen fair ‘traffic’ for SL2 trade in’s for SL2-S’s.

The retailer above is also a dealer for Fuji, Canon and Sony so I can only assume people have gone to them to change for one of these camera’s. Having read through many of these posts I don’t think the Sony A1 is probably the camera they’re all changing for as people knew the relative AF performance to say an A9II when they bought it. The Canon R5 has been around for a little while now and the SL2 used ‘surge’ has only come about over the last few weeks, so I assume it’s most likely the GFX100’s. Twice the resolution, probably slightly better AF, wide range of lenses, good ergonomics and similar price - you can see the attraction going back to the OP.

I’ve been endeavouring to point out through my post’s above that whilst many people remain delighted with their SL2’s, Leica has a very tough challenge on it’s hands now in this segment acquiring new users after only a year,  given the timing of the release based upon the S1R sensor and AF. It strikes me as a very similar position funny enough Fuji found themselves in with the XH1 when shortly afterwards the A7III was released for similar money. The XH1 was a really good camera (great build, EVF etc) but ‘stretched’ dated tech (except for the IBIS) which was exposed with the release of their own XT3 (perhaps the SL2-S equivalent) and the new Sony at a similar price point.

If you say have an M or a Q you might well chose the SL2-S (more of a hybrid and a firmware update promised with a approx date unlike the SL2) or just go straight to the GFX100’s. If you don’t have any Leica equipment well you have far more choice in early 21 than you did in 20 at the same price point. For me I’m glad I swapped out my SL2 for an SL2-S recently as only after a week or so it seems to me to be funny enough an ‘upgraded’ version of my SL2. I’ll see how I get along for my user cases and if the SL2-S is up for it then there will be no need for the GFX100’s, however, that 100mb resolution/performance for the price is tempting.....and getting back to the OP Fuji have always in my mind come up second in the rankings for me in terms of the ergonomics and build quality to Leica and ahead of the other main brands (with the exception of the GFX100 as opposed to the new S version!!). Interesting times for us all

I’m also seeing this as well and you can see on Fujifilm user groups some Leica SL2 owners are selling their cameras and lenses for the 100S. 

I currently have a 100s with me for a while and it’s the best built Fujifilm camera to date I’ve used. The performance is also impressive and yes it does best the SL2 in focusing and speed and it’s medium format. 
 

Reality is, the SL line was always meant for performance. To use your M lenses on it was a secondary thought, as Leica wants to sell M cameras for that.  But if performance isn’t there, and you now can get twice the resolution, medium format with better performance for the same price and arguably better support if your camera breaks down, it’s not a difficult decision unless the red dot means more to you than anything else. 
 

Agree with you, Leica has a very difficult challenge on their hands going forward with the SL line. They cannot treat it the same as the M series of cameras and lenses.  This market segment moves fast and competition is fierce. 
 

hopefully this will be a wake up call for them to push forward with updates and lens releases faster. 
 

 

[Jon Warwick]

I'm in that category of already trading in an (absolutely mint) SL2 towards a GFX100S.

Now, part of the reason is I do print very large (to 50-60" wide). And after doing test prints, I decided that 100mp is very beneficial at that print size compared to the SL2's 47mp sensor in high resolution mode. Also, the output of the GFX100 sensor feels quite similar in fine detail and smooth tonal gradation to my 5x4 film.

So for me, the GFX100S will replace both the SL2 and (in some circumstances) large format film.

Aside from the image quality of the GFX100S (ie, sheer brut force of 1.7x bigger sensor size + higher pixel count), what made it an easy decision to ditch the SL2 is the GFX100S' body size is nearly identical to the SL2 and with a very similar weight, but with several Fuji lenses that are both shorter and lighter than the SL APO Summicrons.  So going up a sensor size to medium format makes no real difference to the camera's portability (lighter in some circumstances), and the Fuji body's price is also basically the same. 

These factors all made it an easy decision for me to ditch the SL2, even though I'm very slow to normally do such as thing! 

As an aside, after being an SL2 user for a year, what it did remind me was just how unique the M cameras are ....I've been an M4, M7 and M240 user for years, and travelling with them and being able to throw such a light and compact camera, virtually unnoticeable, into a bag (sometimes even as a digital "complement" to when travelling with my 4x5 film camera) is something that I continue to find remarkably pleasurable for its portability / size / weight / manual operation.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Jon Warwick

[Zeleifa]

In response to OP, it appears that Fuji for its MF line, follows a trend where they introduce a new camera that is filled with new features and improvements, yet at the same time, they repackage an existing one in a different and smaller package at a reduced-price tag. This is clearly demonstrated when Fuji introduced both; GFX 50R as a repackaged of the older sibling GFX 50S and GFX100 as a totally new one. Therefore, the recently introduced GFX 100S is merely a repackaged GFX100. So, it would be more interesting to wait and find out what Fuji is up to for an entirely fresh and new camera as the 100S been around for a while in a different clothing.

[LocalHero1953]

3 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

unless the red dot means more to you than anything else

Unless there are other factors that you don't find as important, or the factors that you find exciting are just less so - or even problematic, like processing 100mp images.
You seem to have difficulty in accepting that others may have genuine photographic reasons for preferring a different camera. 

[aksclix]

3 hours ago, Succisa75 said:

I’m also seeing this as well and you can see on Fujifilm user groups some Leica SL2 owners are selling their cameras and lenses for the 100S. 

I currently have a 100s with me for a while and it’s the best built Fujifilm camera to date I’ve used. The performance is also impressive and yes it does best the SL2 in focusing and speed and it’s medium format. 
 

Reality is, the SL line was always meant for performance. To use your M lenses on it was a secondary thought, as Leica wants to sell M cameras for that.  But if performance isn’t there, and you now can get twice the resolution, medium format with better performance for the same price and arguably better support if your camera breaks down, it’s not a difficult decision unless the red dot means more to you than anything else. 
 

Agree with you, Leica has a very difficult challenge on their hands going forward with the SL line. They cannot treat it the same as the M series of cameras and lenses.  This market segment moves fast and competition is fierce. 
 

hopefully this will be a wake up call for them to push forward with updates and lens releases faster. 
 

 

How did you get hold of a 100s? 

[LD_50]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Unless there are other factors that you don't find as important, or the factors that you find exciting are just less so - or even problematic, like processing 100mp images.
You seem to have difficulty in accepting that others may have genuine photographic reasons for preferring a different camera. 

Agreed. 

It’s difficult to understand cross-shopping an SL2, or SL2-S with a GFX100S or X1D, especially as a trade if already invested in the SL ecosystem. 

I chose the SL system and can’t see how the GFX system would replace it. It could certainly complement it. 
 

• Fuji’s primes are slow. There is nothing to compete with the Summicrons. The 80 f/1.7 and 110 f/2 are the exceptions. The 110 is significantly larger than the 90SL. The 80 is in between the Summicron and Summilux 50 sizes. 
• Fuji’s zooms are not competitive with the SLs. There is no 16-35 alternative. The GF32-64 offers a very narrow range and the 45-100 isn’t nearly as useful a range as the SL 24-90. The 100-200 is not competitive with the 90-280 in range or speed. Adding the teleconverter helps on the long end but makes the lens even slower. 
• The M lenses on the SL offer a very compact package. Is there anything similar available for the Fuji? I’m not talking about using FF lenses and giving up the resolution and sensor size advantages. The same can be done with APSc lenses on a FF camera. 
• 100 MP in a larger sensor is a significant advantage over the SL for certain applications. I can’t see the SL system meeting that need unless using multi shot in static scenes. 

The Fuji system looks very nice and compact for the IQ available, I just don’t see how it replaces an SL system if you needed what the SL offers. Similarly the Fuji’s advantages are clear and I can’t see how the SL competes. 

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[Succisa75]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Unless there are other factors that you don't find as important, or the factors that you find exciting are just less so - or even problematic, like processing 100mp images.
You seem to have difficulty in accepting that others may have genuine photographic reasons for preferring a different camera. 

Actually I don’t. Some people like a camera for prestige, others for functionality. There are no right or wrong reasons for liking a camera. I love the SL2 for its design and concept. I’m just highly disappointed in the lack of updates and execution in one of the most beautiful cameras to hold and use. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Succisa75

[Succisa75]

1 hour ago, aksclix said:

How did you get hold of a 100s? 

Friends who have access to it.