GFX100S vs SL2/X1D

[Jon Warwick]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

6 hours ago, frame-it said:

Blazing Fast AF, even in Low light inside the shop

Lighter and smaller than my GFX50R

the EVF and screen  are really nice

Blazing Fast AF..oh i said that already.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

I like the large LCD on the top plate on the GFX100S; I can also envisage the handling is very well balanced with some of these GF lenses (like the 50mm or 63mm), which are shorter and lighter than the SL Summicrons.

[caissa]

On 2/24/2021 at 7:20 AM, Mr.Q said:

For me part of what makes this hobby fun is buying new gear.  If I don't like the GFX system after using it, I'll sell it. No biggie. Folks are taking this too seriously. It's just camera gear.

In the end it’s just money you burn. If you enjoy that it is maybe ok. But for many with less money it is just stupid.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[frame-it]

28 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

I like the large LCD on the top plate on the GFX100S; I can also envisage the handling is very well balanced with some of these GF lenses (like the 50mm or 63mm), which are shorter and lighter than the SL Summicrons.

the dials are customizable, once setup i found i only need to use the dial near the thumb, aperture from the lens.

[Jon Warwick]

25 minutes ago, frame-it said:

..... aperture from the lens.

It seems such a small and trivial thing, but having an aperture ring back on the lens is another thing I'm looking forward to with the Fuji .....back to "M" like! .....I expect I will much prefer it compared to using an electronic dial on the SL2 to change the aperture.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Jon Warwick

[Mr.Q]

On 2/25/2021 at 7:24 AM, Tailwagger said:

Or perhaps not seriously enough. Some folks are short term investors, I'm a long term one.  Put another way, while it might seem boring, in this sphere, I prefer marriage to playing the field. But I can certainly accept that others prefer to maintain a level of youthful excitement over the maturity and patience required for a long term relationship. I too have succumbed to lust on occasion, but it hasn't been without its costs. 

From where I sit, investing 10's of thousands into a system is not done on a lark nor for a year or two. Despite some interest, I sat on the sidelines vis a vis the L-system for quite a while before buying in. When I did, it wasn't for the body, though I'll admit that aspects of the SL2 were a factor.  But at root, it was for the Summicrons without which I never would have jumped into the pool. I continue to love the way they draw and if Karbe is to be believed they are essentially future proof, at least in my lifetime.  If I have a complaint or concern, it's that while we've seen any number of new M lenses since the announcements of the wider L- primes, to date we've only just gotten the 28mm, heard nothing about the other two promised offerings nor has there been any further updates to the road map that I'm aware of.  It would be disappointing to me if we were never to see any  Leica produced primes over 90mm.  OTOH, Sigma seems 98% capable of filling the void, though they too have yet to do so. 

Similarly with Hasselblad, while I could potentially see myself selling off the X1Dii for an M10-M near term, I'll keep the glass. Assuming HB survives, it's not unreasonable to expect that an X2D with the same sensor will arrive at some point. Fuji is certainly doing a great job moving forward and leveraging its far broader user base.  Had I gone that way initially it's doubtful I'd be looking else where.  But as I continue to prefer the HB color and ergonomics to the Fujis, if I do feel a need to upgrade or reenter the mini-MF space, I'm perfectly happy to wait for a next gen XD, preferably a faster 50Mpx/IBIS one, rather than chase or change systems yet again. I'm sure there will be many magnificent captures made with the new GFXs, but the same can be said for any of these systems. 

 

15 hours ago, caissa said:

In the end it’s just money you burn. If you enjoy that it is maybe ok. But for many with less money it is just stupid.

 

I don't view camera gear as an investment and I sure don't keep unused gear around.  I consider that a waste of space. I have my M and Q cameras to fulfill my desire to explore the world around me.  I have my Sony gear to cover all grounds.  Other than those cameras, I'm not married to any system.  I bought the SL2 last year because I wanted to shoot my grandkids with an autofocusing Summilux.  I don't rent because I don't lose much buying and selling used.  Same goes for the X1D II.  I wanted to shoot landscapes/portraits with a MF sensor and it delivered in spades.  Both systems met my expectations as a system with stellar IQ and poor AF.  Loved them both.  No regrets.  Now moving on to the GFX 100S and I'm very excited to see what I can do with a 100MP sensor.  Life's too short to keep wondering.  

[Mr.Q]

BTW I got my copy of the GFX100S along with the 32-64 and 80/1.7 last night.  First impressions are very positive. Excellent ergonomics. Great grip. Autofocus with the 32-64 is super snappy --- much faster than anything Leica, almost approaching my A9, even indoors in low light. Tracking and eye-AF works as advertised. The 2-way flippy screen is awesome. Love the new Nostalgic Negative film simulation for stills and Eterna for video.  And I haven't even gotten to the 80/1.7 yet.  Looks like they have a winner on their hands!

[aksclix]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, Mr.Q said:

BTW I got my copy of the GFX100S along with the 32-64 and 80/1.7 last night.  First impressions are very positive. Excellent ergonomics. Great grip. Autofocus with the 32-64 is super snappy --- much faster than anything Leica, almost approaching my A9, even indoors in low light. Tracking and eye-AF works as advertised. The 2-way flippy screen is awesome. Love the new Nostalgic Negative film simulation for stills and Eterna for video.  And I haven't even gotten to the 80/1.7 yet.  Looks like they have a winner on their hands!

Awesome! How did you get yours so quickly? Got connections or something? 

[Mr.Q]

Yesterday (Feb.25) was the release date in Japan for the GFX100S and 80/1.7.

[Tailwagger]

8 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

I don't view camera gear as an investment... 

Nor do I, although it should be noted that these days the average return on a Leica prime gives quite a few financial instruments a run for their money.

I suspect you missed the gist of why I used the term investment.   One 'invests' not merely money but the far more precious resources of time, energy and brain cells as well.  Perhaps attaining worthwhile photographs comes easily for some regardless of platform, but for myself, understanding how to fully take advantage of a given piece of gear requires more than just a few months of use. It is a partnership that matures and improves over time.  I prefer my technical interactions with the equipment be based more on reflex than consciousness so I'm free to devote the bulk of my attention to content and composition. Knowing intuitively how a specific camera and lens pairing will react and draw in a given situation across a broad range of scenarios is something achieved only over a significant amount of time. More importantly, no system does it all and no matter how much gear one might possess, unless they happen to travel with an army of sherpas, it wont always be at the ready.  It is inevitable that one learn how to work with and around the limitations of what happens to hand in the moment. When things get difficult, the greater the knowledge of and affinity to the equipment, the better the chance there is of hatching a way to a satisfying result. 

Like you, I'm fortunate enough that the financial cost of all but a few of systems is no more than a passing concern. But the price of switching gear is not merely measured in $$$. At this level of equipment, far more shots are lost to poor thought or preparation than to any technical drawback imposed by the camera.  In fact, I often find that the most satisfying, occasionally even best work, has resulted from having to scheme around the limitations of the gear. Switching systems might afford new opportunity, but likewise it breaks existing, often taken for granted, synergies. When chasing this sort of perfection all too often, as Ms. Mitchell once opined, you don't know what you got til it's gone.  While the Fuji's value proposition is undoubtedly an interesting one, for my current and foreseeable use cases, I have zero reason to entertain an additional 50 MPx nor prefer their optics to any that I currently own.  Thus, despite the relatively low financial cost of entry, personally, I'm utterly uninterested in taking on the other set of penalties that any such flip entails. YMMV. Best of luck with the new camera!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ravinj]

This vs that is an endless debate. Sure, GFX 100S is very tempting given the price and superb IQ. I am eyeing one myself. Even my GFX 50R with its "old" sensor, was way ahead of any FF in IQ.

With that said, I don't compare Leica against brand x, y, z - Leica will always "lose" on price and tbh, IQ is not different than cheaper offerings. But guess what...I still like Leica. Or is it that Leica likes me?

Edited February 27, 2021 by ravinj

[SJH]

I think this has been fascinating as a debate and I don’t think anyone is denying that the SL2’s AF is not exactly high up the list v competitors. What’s interesting is that if good AF (not necessarily market leading) is high up your own list then the SL2 looks weaker now given the GFX and R5, as well as the new Nikon’s and Sony’s that are appearing. In this sector the SL2 is now bottom with the SL2-S slightly ahead one place up. If AF isn’t really that important to you then the SL2 can clearly fulfil all your needs just as it did at launch.

The question is now in 2021, with the new range of camera’s on the market, that none of us can really answer in this thread - does the SL2’s current AF performance limit it to a relatively small market of Leica users whose use cases don’t really require it that much. Leica are therefore satisfied that the commercials are going to plan looking outwards or that in Leica HQ it’s causing a major rethink on the SL line strategy re maximising the AF potential as soon as possible to remain competitive in acquiring new Leica/SL users or perhaps devote resources to the SL2-S AF wise with the new sensor and look to Panasonic’s direction for the forthcoming S2R and what AF type and performance that camera will bring to the SL3 as soon as possible. Meanwhile some will move to the R5 and GFX100s having sold their SL2 (which clearly people are doing) or just run dual systems for a time to see how things pan out.

I also think the above will also determine Leica’s appetite for the 21 & 24mm SL lenses and expanding the range of glass further. If perhaps the 21 & 24 get pushed out even further that will tell us all quite a bit. We will also see this year about whether or not Leica will actually update the SL2’s firmware whilst SL2-S customers already have this promised to them. For me personally I’m not about to buy any of the new camera’s that have launched but 2021 will be a crucial year for the survival of the SL line and I for one will be watching Leica very closely to see how they respond.

 

[hillavoider]

1 hour ago, SJH said:

I think this has been fascinating as a debate and I don’t think anyone is denying that the SL2’s AF is not exactly high up the list v competitors. What’s interesting is that if good AF (not necessarily market leading) is high up your own list then the SL2 looks weaker now given the GFX and R5, as well as the new Nikon’s and Sony’s that are appearing. In this sector the SL2 is now bottom with the SL2-S slightly ahead one place up. If AF isn’t really that important to you then the SL2 can clearly fulfil all your needs just as it did at launch.

The question is now in 2021, with the new range of camera’s on the market, that none of us can really answer in this thread - does the SL2’s current AF performance limit it to a relatively small market of Leica users whose use cases don’t really require it that much. Leica are therefore satisfied that the commercials are going to plan looking outwards or that in Leica HQ it’s causing a major rethink on the SL line strategy re maximising the AF potential as soon as possible to remain competitive in acquiring new Leica/SL users or perhaps devote resources to the SL2-S AF wise with the new sensor and look to Panasonic’s direction for the forthcoming S2R and what AF type and performance that camera will bring to the SL3 as soon as possible. Meanwhile some will move to the R5 and GFX100s having sold their SL2 (which clearly people are doing) or just run dual systems for a time to see how things pan out.

I also think the above will also determine Leica’s appetite for the 21 & 24mm SL lenses and expanding the range of glass further. If perhaps the 21 & 24 get pushed out even further that will tell us all quite a bit. We will also see this year about whether or not Leica will actually update the SL2’s firmware whilst SL2-S customers already have this promised to them. For me personally I’m not about to buy any of the new camera’s that have launched but 2021 will be a crucial year for the survival of the SL line and I for one will be watching Leica very closely to see how they respond.

 

i agree the only thing keeping the SL system alive is the great lenses. only reason i bought the LEMON SL2 is because i had the 35SL and leica sales people told me it had eye AF 

anyway..... maybe sigma will bring out a foveon 😀👍

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, SJH said:

 What’s interesting is that if good AF (not necessarily market leading) is high up your own list then the SL2 looks weaker now given the GFX and R5, as well as the new Nikon’s and Sony’s that are appearing. In this sector the SL2 is now bottom with the SL2-S slightly ahead one place up. If AF isn’t really that important to you then the SL2 can clearly fulfil all your needs just as it did at launch.

I have no problem with you expressing your opinion about the SL2's AF. I do have a problem when you translate that into gaslighting about other users' experience with it, and their use requirements. For the record, AF is important to me - and I don't have a problem with the AF of the SL2 (SL2-S's in my case, though I had the SL and SL2 before). I will welcome more advanced AF when it comes, but it is not holding me back in the here and now. 

[aksclix]

Au contraire! My strong opinion is, SL line will very much be alive and improving on its own timeline irrespective of where the other manufacturers are at the moment.. the AF is not terrible as it has been made to sound.. it’s contrast detect.. it seems to be good enough for most occasions.. if they wanted to promote this for birding or sports, there would be a supporting lens in their line up too. Anyway, I honestly think the SL2 was an awesome upgrade from the SL and with SL2-S they’re listening to videographers too.. there’s no reason to think the SL3 wouldn’t be greater.. I would still buy it even if they had the same AF on that.. I have other systems for super fast AF.. 

Like I said it’s the S line that’s already on its last legs..

[Mr.Q]

The bottom line for me is I rather manual focus than rely on slow and unreliable AF.  And I rather use a rangefinder over an EVF for manual focusing. 

I find it unacceptable that slow AF is even a thing in 2021. YMMV.

[LD_50]

15 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

The bottom line for me is I rather manual focus than rely on slow and unreliable AF.  And I rather use a rangefinder over an EVF for manual focusing. 

I find it unacceptable that slow AF is even a thing in 2021. YMMV.

The AF is not slow and unreliable for anything I would shoot with manual focus on my M. 

It’s not great at tracking with shallow DOF. I wouldn’t rely on manual focus for this, I would choose an AF system that prioritizes it. I definitely would not use an M. My Nikon system did this very well.  

It’s not a reliable eye AF system with very shallow DOF. It’s only very recent that any cameras do this reliably. Most still seem to miss slightly, focusing on eyelashes or cheeks or noses, if resolution is high enough to see this. I’ve never owned a system that does this well and I’ve been fine. The M was okay for this purpose with a lot of practice but only with shorter lenses and my hit rate is still better with AF. 

[setuporg]

6 hours ago, SJH said:

If AF isn’t really that important to you then the SL2 can clearly fulfil all your needs just as it did at launch.

Can you provide an example of where the AF is so crucial to you that SL2's is not enough?

[LocalHero1953]

I can well understand that there are scenarios where better AF than Leica can offer could be vital for a particular type of photography - I wouldn't argue with that. But it's a big step, with big assumptions along the way, to conclude from that that for others AF is not important.

[setuporg]

I want to understand how specifically AF that SL2 has fails for those who consider it such an issue.  I found it refreshingly fast for Leica, with a variety of options.  As an old Russian saying goes, "for a bad dancer, even the balls get in the way"...

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[ravinj]

SL2 was never known as the king of AF. Not in 2019 not in 2020, certainly not in 2021. Not sure why suddenly people are calling this as a showstopper. I am just glad that SL2 can actually AF. If I need to catch birds in flight or eye AF on an eagle, there are better bodies and lenses for that use case. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by ravinj