New Special Edition: The Leica M10-P "Reporter" in Kevlar Cover

[hdmesa]

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12 hours ago, ejk64 said:

hello ,

and here is mine from February 2021 whose "kevlar" texture is starting to approach the gray-green of the case , according to the warning from leica. ...
it visited france from north to south and from east to west, and venice, florence, istambul, dublin and luxembourg...

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Looks more like off white or gray than green. Maybe it’s just dead skin collecting in the fibers 🙃

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[farnz]

On 9/28/2022 at 2:35 PM, Al Brown said:

Maybe not in contextual practical use (I read somewhere that Kevlar is lyotropic liquid crystalline aramid) ...

(Apologies for the delay in replying, I've been in Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, and other Eastern European countries for a few weeks.)

It's unlikely that Kevlar is a lycotropic liquid crystalline (LLC) form of Aramid because Kevlar only briefly has a LLC phase when it's dissolved in sulphuric acid, which is not a stable state of course and will enter another (non-LLC) phase subsequently. 

Additionally, it's not a liquid-crystalline (LC) material since the LC structure at its molecular level would be unable to produce the properties that Kevlar displays and is known for, for example instantaneous resistance to shock in body armour.

I found one paper that used Kevlar as an example of a substance with a potential LLC phase but until DuPont publishes the 14 secret herbs and spices it uses to transform Aramid into Kevlar it's unlikely that it will ever be confirmed.  And DuPont isn't about to publish the 'recipe' in case businesses in a certain Oriental country decide to undertake manufacture and threaten DuPont's market dominance of course.

Pete.

[PAG]

There appears to be  a number of issues here: 1) What it is and will it stop a bullet; 2) How the edges fray; and, 3) How long it will last (just added the last one as I haven't read a replay that seems to question this).

1. What is it? It is an aramid - already addressed in previous posts by many others.

Will it stop a bullet: Might, if it is secured well enough and has sufficient rating to do so. The ratings on things like slash-proof tops, stab-proof and bullet-proof vests are given as a series of numbers that come from objective test results. Resistance to - Abrasion; blade-cut; tear; and, puncture. Each has a number and the slash-resistant undershirt that I wore at work today is numbered 1,3,2,2 - The higher the numbers the more resistant it is. My undershirt is made from Kevlar (DuPont) so, as you can see, being Kevlar does not automatically make it bullet proof - the material has to be built to have a high enough rating.

2. How the edges fray - any material that isn't secured properly will fray. During manufacture, you can secure it properly by folding it under then glueing/stitching it. It frays because the exposed edges are distressed in normal use so it is down to design as to whether it does or not.

3. How long will it last? Aramids will keep their ratings for quite a long time if you treat them correctly. If your aramid is under a thick enough layer of resin that stops UV light then the aramid will not break down because of UV light. If you hang your slash proof top on the line to dry when you have washed it, the UV light in the sunlight will destroy the aramid and substantially reduce its rating (biological detergents don't have any real effect on aramids such as Kevlar).

Taking your exposed aramid-covered camera out in daylight will destroy the aramid and it will discolour and undergo other detrimental changes.

So, in conclusion: It probably won't stop a bullet unless Leica have done tests and can publish the ratings; The abundance of comments about it fraying suggest to me that it might not be secured in a way that is appropriate for Aramid material; and, Don't take it out in daylight.

[BlackPaint]

is anyone still keeping score? Camera West sold one in the last month or so in the high 6s, while Adorama hopes to make a buck at 8 grand with moderate wear!  

[BlackPaint]

You’re welcome to whomever just bought that one from Adorama!

[grahamc]

18 hours ago, BlackPaint said:

is anyone still keeping score? Camera West sold one in the last month or so in the high 6s, while Adorama hopes to make a buck at 8 grand with moderate wear!  

Sold mine in the high 6's.   Loved the Reporter but decided to stick to something more progressive (M10-D) 😛😂

[BlackPaint]

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I tried to get Leitz to remove the bayer filter on mine and turn it into a M 10 P monochrome reporter, but when they refused, I ditched it. I don’t like being run of the mill and the mothership has definitely breached their contract in terms of numbers produced. Their M10-Reporter is not limited to 450 anymore.

[jakontil]

On 12/14/2022 at 5:28 AM, BlackPaint said:

I tried to get Leitz to remove the bayer filter on mine and turn it into a M 10 P monochrome reporter, but when they refused, I ditched it. I don’t like being run of the mill and the mothership has definitely breached their contract in terms of numbers produced. Their M10-Reporter is not limited to 450 anymore.

really? how did you conclude it?

[BlackPaint]

By all the examples popping up this year and their history of trickling additional numbers in after the initial run. It’s also why I bailed on the M10M LWE.  Muddied exclusivity.  Watch. The Q2M Reporter is going to be the same.   

[farnz]

6 hours ago, BlackPaint said:

By all the examples popping up this year and their history of trickling additional numbers in after the initial run. It’s also why I bailed on the M10M LWE.  Muddied exclusivity.  Watch. The Q2M Reporter is going to be the same.   

So, a subjective view that's not supported by confirmed numbers?

I bought one of the first batch of (initially) "limited edition" 50/1.4 Black Chrome 'Retro' Summiluxes before subsequent batches were released so I have a some sympathy but I think it would help if you support what you've claimed or it's smoke in the wind.

Pete.

[LeicaS2]

If you want to really protect your reporter, it fits perfectly in a Pelican M40 Micro case, and put it in a dark drawer.

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[Kiwimac]

I have to say I do like them in green. Presumably impossible to get now. I know in NZ there is still Reporter availability for Q2 and SL2s but I never saw the M version.

We don't get all of them - the Hoodinkee Q2 for example had not a single unit allocated to New Zealand. I gather one collector was not happy.

[charlesphoto99]

On 12/16/2022 at 10:43 PM, BlackPaint said:

By all the examples popping up this year and their history of trickling additional numbers in after the initial run. It’s also why I bailed on the M10M LWE.  Muddied exclusivity.  Watch. The Q2M Reporter is going to be the same.   

Maybe just buy a camera to use? 

[jdlaing]

On 12/27/2022 at 11:06 AM, charlesphoto99 said:

Maybe just buy a camera to use? 

😃

[Herr Barnack]

On 11/2/2022 at 12:34 PM, PAG said:

There appears to be  a number of issues here: 1) What it is and will it stop a bullet; 2) How the edges fray; and, 3) How long it will last (just added the last one as I haven't read a replay that seems to question this).

1. What is it? It is an aramid - already addressed in previous posts by many others.

Will it stop a bullet: Might, if it is secured well enough and has sufficient rating to do so. The ratings on things like slash-proof tops, stab-proof and bullet-proof vests are given as a series of numbers that come from objective test results. Resistance to - Abrasion; blade-cut; tear; and, puncture. Each has a number and the slash-resistant undershirt that I wore at work today is numbered 1,3,2,2 - The higher the numbers the more resistant it is. My undershirt is made from Kevlar (DuPont) so, as you can see, being Kevlar does not automatically make it bullet proof - the material has to be built to have a high enough rating.

2. How the edges fray - any material that isn't secured properly will fray. During manufacture, you can secure it properly by folding it under then glueing/stitching it. It frays because the exposed edges are distressed in normal use so it is down to design as to whether it does or not.

3. How long will it last? Aramids will keep their ratings for quite a long time if you treat them correctly. If your aramid is under a thick enough layer of resin that stops UV light then the aramid will not break down because of UV light. If you hang your slash proof top on the line to dry when you have washed it, the UV light in the sunlight will destroy the aramid and substantially reduce its rating (biological detergents don't have any real effect on aramids such as Kevlar).

Taking your exposed aramid-covered camera out in daylight will destroy the aramid and it will discolour and undergo other detrimental changes.

So, in conclusion: It probably won't stop a bullet unless Leica have done tests and can publish the ratings; The abundance of comments about it fraying suggest to me that it might not be secured in a way that is appropriate for Aramid material; and, Don't take it out in daylight.

The kevlar panels in a level IIIA vest are 0.33" thick (8.4 mm) and consist of up to 50 layers of laminated kevlar.  Level IIIA protection will stop handgun rounds up to .44 magnum, 12 gauge shotgun 00 buckshot and slugs, but will not stop any rifle caliber bullet, including a 5.56mm (M193) or 7.62x39mm.

Given the above, the single layer of kevlar cladding on the M10-P (and Q2) Reporter cameras will not stop much.  If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that the kevlar on the Reporter cameras might stop a projectile from a .17 or .22 caliber air rifle.

As for the .22 Short caliber, which launches a 29-grain (1.9 g) bullet at 1,045 feet per second (319 m/s) with 70 ft·lbf (95 J) of energy from a 22 in (559 mm) rifle barrel and can penetrate 2 inches (51 mm) of soft pine - no.

Regarding the .22 Long Rifle round, the single layer of kevlar cloth would not stop the projectile. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[PAG]

On 12/29/2022 at 12:32 AM, Herr Barnack said:

The kevlar panels in a level IIIA vest are 0.33" thick (8.4 mm) and consist of up to 50 layers of laminated kevlar.  Level IIIA protection will stop handgun rounds up to .44 magnum, 12 gauge shotgun 00 buckshot and slugs, but will not stop any rifle caliber bullet, including a 5.56mm (M193) or 7.62x39mm.

Given the above, the single layer of kevlar cladding on the M10-P (and Q2) Reporter cameras will not stop much.  If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that the kevlar on the Reporter cameras might stop a projectile from a .17 or .22 caliber air rifle.

As for the .22 Short caliber, which launches a 29-grain (1.9 g) bullet at 1,045 feet per second (319 m/s) with 70 ft·lbf (95 J) of energy from a 22 in (559 mm) rifle barrel and can penetrate 2 inches (51 mm) of soft pine - no.

Regarding the .22 Long Rifle round, the single layer of kevlar cloth would not stop the projectile. 

Well said. However, if it was thick enough to stop the bullet with 95J energy, there are two things that concern me: 1) that energy has to go somewhere (into the person holding the camera); and, 2) what would it do to the insides of the camera?

[LeicaS2]

War photographers count on the metal in a Lecia to stop bullets. I also saw photo after of a Leica

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a lens stop a bullet. In either case the cameras. were not operating but the photographer was. The Reporter is a very nice color. The fabric was used with a sense of humor by the good Doctor. If they had an M11 reporter I would get it too.

 

 

[satya]

I have a M10-P Reporter that I use- it's not locked up away in a box! First photo is the camera the day I got it in July 2021 from the camera store. The coating is pretty solid and does not attract fingerprints. The Kevlar fiber has small texture fuzz. The Kevlar color is getting a little faded and is more on the gray side and doesn't seem to be going towards the green as stated in some literature. Last photo is the camera with the COOP Leica Paracord Strap that is perfect on the camera. 

The color is a nice change from the usual Chrome or Black bodies 😎.

 

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grahamc]

On 1/22/2023 at 8:08 PM, Al Brown said:

My reporter is used daily. Some fraying of the aramid ahoy! already showing near the baseplate.

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Nice colours from this camera !  50 cron ? 

[grahamc]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

35 FLE wide open.

Very nice ! I was miles off (well, 15mm)