A New Year Wish for the M System

[fotografr]

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16 hours ago, lct said:

The rangefinder is a focus tool. If you remove it and replace it by an EVF it is "instead of" not "in addition to" from this standpoint. Anyway Leica did make M cameras sans rangefinder already (M1, MD, MD-2, MDa). Only newbies can be surprised by that

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I vaguely recall reading about these models. They were the ones that came with the instruction manual in braille. 😁

Edited February 19, 2021 by fotografr

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[BastianK]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Kwesi:

Funny thing is the poor chap has had the M10 for a year, has clearly shot a ton of pictures with it with and hates it so much he can't bear to part with it.😉

I also don't part with my Burberry scarf (which by the way I find a little too short) even though I am sure there are cheaper and at the same time better scarfs available 😉
 

[strohscw]

The only thing I would like to see from Leica is an optimized EVF 030 (3 to 5 MPx). My M10M itself is perfect for me. I would not want to do without the OVF.

[fotografr]

40 minutes ago, BastianK said:

I also don't part with my Burberry scarf (which by the way I find a little too short) even though I am sure there are cheaper and at the same time better scarfs available 😉
 

I know just what you mean. I feel exactly the same about my Silver Cloud (except that I don't find it a little too short.) 😉

Edited February 19, 2021 by fotografr

[Matlock]

2 hours ago, fotografr said:

No, there are two of us.

Four.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, lct said:

I won't bother you with optical formulas, CoC values and those sorts of things, unless you insist at your own risk . In practice, just use a fast lens, a telephoto preferably, do not cheat by focus bracketing and compare with an EVF doing focus magnification. If you don't see a difference you don't need an EVF at all .

Maybe that's it then as i seldom use my 90mm tele-elmarit and its not especially fast.

I do have a 35mm f1.4 and 50mm f2 and i am happy with my hit rate with those lenses wide open.

I tried focus peaking on my olympus pen which my daughter now uses but hated it and i would not be fiddling with focus magnification taking pics of my grand children anyway.

I prefer the bright clear window to what i see as the electronic laggy tunnel.

 

 

[Guest]

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10 hours ago, astrostl said:

A major criticism of the rangefinder can be found at BastianK's M10 review. It also links to Leica's own statement on the matter.

I think it's tough but fair. Still, I simply like using rangefinders 🤷‍♂️

I just think its a hateful review of an easy target lapped up by lots of auto-everything jealous photographers.

pure attention seeking without balance.

[lct]

6 minutes ago, steve 1959 said:

I prefer the bright clear window to what i see as the electronic laggy tunnel.

Hardly surprising compared to the sluggish Visoflexes but i have no lag with my digital CL or later cameras. Now to each his own anyway what some of us (3 or 4?) would like to have is just a modern camera dedicated to the best compact lenses in the world.

[setuporg]

15 hours ago, steve 1959 said:

But i fail to see how it's better for accurate focus compared  to a rangefinder?

Without auto-focus squinting through an EVF is hard work for me at least.

Steve, you hit the nail on the head!  AF often misfocuses on foreground vs background when you need the opposite.  And when you manually adjust EVF may or may not be easy to confirm focus.  RF indeed is an easier manual focusing mechanism.

Edited February 19, 2021 by setuporg

[Matlock]

Breaking News.  Leica have announced that they have disbanded their R & D department and, in future, all new cameras and lenses will be designed by members of The Leica Forum. This will ensure absolute consistency across the board. Leica stated that they look forward to a time when all their products meet the requirements of all users without exception..

[fisheess]

2 hours ago, lct said:

Hardly surprising compared to the sluggish Visoflexes but i have no lag with my digital CL or later cameras. Now to each his own anyway what some of us (3 or 4?) would like to have is just a modern camera dedicated to the best compact lenses in the world.

I do not wish for a EVF-M camera but I do see this is an opportunity for Leica to get actually popular among non-RF enthusiasts. If (but I don't wish for it) Leica does release such a camera, we can expect the price for lenses to rocket.

[astrostl]

3 hours ago, setuporg said:

AF often misfocuses on foreground vs background when you need the opposite.  And when you manually adjust EVF may or may not be easy to confirm focus.  RF indeed is an easier manual focusing mechanism.

The contrast here is RF vs EVF focus of the same manual lens, not RF/manual vs AF/automatic (although I'd expect Sony to win that in a rout). For achieving critical focus in mixed settings there is no contest between RF and EVF. With an EVF what you see is what you get, you can focus on any visible area without recomposing, and you have focus aids like peaking and/or zooming available. I'll stress again, I still prefer using a RF myself. I just can't pretend that a drift-prone analog approximation is more accurate than a digital representation.

[cirke]

7 hours ago, setuporg said:

Steve, you hit the nail on the head!  AF often misfocuses on foreground vs background when you need the opposite.  And when you manually adjust EVF may or may not be easy to confirm focus.  RF indeed is an easier manual focusing mechanism.

I know nothing simpler and more precise than to focus on a target magnified 10 times.  the RF is very far behind when it comes to precision
There is not a single  photo of Cartier Bresson that is sharp according to our current criteria (whether they are artistic or interesting is another matter).
I assume that you know how to use a RF better than he did?   and in addition with today 50mp and f/0.95

Edited February 19, 2021 by cirke

[lct]

Hehe one of HCB's own favorite photos (Mariage à Joinville-Le-Pont, 1938), is sharp only on the shoes of the subject. Others are sharper though. I guess we would call this good enough focusing, for which rangefinders are hard to beat IMHO. But easier to focus accurately they are not compared to good EVFs with focus magnification. 

[evikne]

16 minutes ago, cirke said:

I know nothing simpler and more precise than to focus on a target magnified 10 times.  the RF is very far behind when it comes to precision
There is not a single  photo of Cartier Bresson that is sharp according to our current criteria (whether they are artistic or interesting is another matter).
I assume that you know how to use a RF better than he did?   and in addition with 50mp and f/0.95

An EVF is precise when you have time to use it, but it's not very suitable for street photography and moving subjects. And you have no idea of the composition when the image is zoomed in 10 times. For fast, manual focusing nothing beats a RF. 

[cirke]

12 minutes ago, evikne said:

An EVF is precise when you have time to use it, but it's not very suitable for street photography and moving subjects. And you have no idea of the composition when the image is zoomed in 10 times. For fast, manual focusing nothing beats a RF. 

You maybe 

I've covered a lot of sporting events with the m240 and its visoflex. With zoom x5 only in that case 
There are no problems with framing or slowness

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by cirke

[jdlaing]

10 hours ago, fotografr said:

No, there are two of us.

Five.

[fotografr]

1 hour ago, jdlaing said:

Five.

The list keeps growing. 😁

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Guest]

2 hours ago, cirke said:

I know nothing simpler and more precise than to focus on a target magnified 10 times.  the RF is very far behind when it comes to precision
There is not a single  photo of Cartier Bresson that is sharp according to our current criteria (whether they are artistic or interesting is another matter).
I assume that you know how to use a RF better than he did?   and in addition with today 50mp and f/0.95

So now bresson would have to say "hang on a minute while i put my 10 times magnification on so i can capture the moment" ?

What a stupid idea

So 1] compose 2] magnify 3] shoot  but wait a minute my 7 year old grand daughter has gone!!

[lct]

The RF is slower compared to focus peaking because you don't have to recompose with an EVF, but indeed faster than focus magnification but also less accurate when nailing focus is needed. Horses for courses, matter of taste and so on .