ultimate lens kit for FILM

[bags27]

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37 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

For me very good surprise.

Macro-Elmar 90 or other non-asph lenses work nice on film ( and most also nice on sensor of course ).

With my type of pics, asph. lenses tend to be a bit less satisfied than non asph. ( not applicable to Apo-Summicron-M 75mm asph. which gives as pleasant pics as the non-asph.Summarit-M 75mm ).

As usual, this is individual 😇... not universal.

Thank you for the answer. With the macro adaptor, how close (magnification) does the lens shoot? In other words, can it be used as a substitute for the R 60 or 100? 

[a.noctilux]

Ken with the goggled Macro-Adapter-M, this one

it's limited to 1:3, at 50cm coupled close focus, so not as practical as the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm 1:2 (one of my most used R lens on M with liveview for close-up)

[bags27]

8 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Ken with the goggled Macro-Adapter-M, this one

it's limited to 1:3, at 50cm coupled close focus, so not as practical as the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm 1:2 (one of my most used R lens on M with liveview for close-up)

Many thanks, Arnaud. I'm tempted to get both!

[shirubadanieru]

I’ve tried a lot of modern / vintage lens on film (mostly color) and also digital Leicas. I’d say for the Monochrom, the earlier v1 Summicrons 35/50 tend to look amazing. They also look good on color cameras, but not to the same extent. I don’t like these lenses on film that much though, as they are a tad too soft when shot below f4. 

For film cameras, some of the lens I’ve enjoyed a lot are the Summilux 50mm pre-asph, the Summicron Rigid 50mm, Elmar 50mm f2.8, Elmar Red Scale 50mm f3.5, UC Hexanon 35mm, Summicron V4 35mm.

The above is all my personal opinion, based on my personal experience

[Erato]

1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said:

I’ve tried a lot of modern / vintage lens on film (mostly color) and also digital Leicas. I’d say for the Monochrom, the earlier v1 Summicrons 35/50 tend to look amazing. They also look good on color cameras, but not to the same extent. I don’t like these lenses on film that much though, as they are a tad too soft when shot below f4. 

For film cameras, some of the lens I’ve enjoyed a lot are the Summilux 50mm pre-asph, the Summicron Rigid 50mm, Elmar 50mm f2.8, Elmar Red Scale 50mm f3.5, UC Hexanon 35mm, Summicron V4 35mm.

The above is all my personal opinion, based on my personal experience

That sounds pretty awesome, and it looks like my in-depth research paid back already. I guess that I'm lucky for choosing 35 Cron V4 and 50 "Pre-ASPH." for color photography.

And old LTM lenses are for black and white photography. One thing is interesting, on some occasion, the 35 FLE outperforms too perfect as expected.

I've further studies lingering some specific lenses on Summaron and Elmarit, current understanding is that they're all great for torn between analog/digital photography.

According to my research recently, all the documentary indicated that the 35 Corn V1 is famous for B/W photography. I believed that the 35 Corn V1 is a great lens, does it over-rated as told, especially mounted on the modern camera?

Are there any of you who use this lens on the MM, M246, or even M10M? I would very thankful to learn your experience.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Erato

[shirubadanieru]

3 hours ago, Erato said:

That sounds pretty awesome, and it looks like my in-depth research paid back already. I guess that I'm lucky for choosing 35 Cron V4 and 50 "Pre-ASPH." for color photography.

And old LTM lenses are for black and white photography. One thing is interesting, on some occasion, the 35 FLE outperforms too perfect as expected.

I've further studies lingering some specific lenses on Summaron and Elmarit, current understanding is that they're all great for torn between analog/digital photography.

According to my research recently, all the documentary indicated that the 35 Corn V1 is famous for B/W photography. I believed that the 35 Corn V1 is a great lens, does it over-rated as told, especially mounted on the modern camera?

Are there any of you who use this lens on the MM, M246, or even M10M? I would very thankful to learn your experience.

For the MM and M10M (the ones I tried) definitely 35 cron V1 was my favorite lens to use with it and if I just had to pick one lens that would probably be it. The summilux steel rim V1 35mm was pretty awesome too but only focuses down to 1m which can be limiting for a 35mm. Unfortunately these two lenses are now collector items and way too expensive...so I’d probably recommend going with the Summaron instead. As for 50mm, definitely love the summicron rigid the most, I much prefer it to any other versions. The Collapsible summicron is also lovely with the MM, but much softer wide open than the rigid. 

In term of online reviews, I think that most of them match my own experience that the Cron V1 and Rigid are some of the best lens for B&W. That being said I also love the way these lens render color, so I wouldn’t say they are B&W only lens. For example, I prefer the summicron V1 to the V4 for color digital sensors, and the same goes for the rigid over any other summicron / summilux 50s. On the opposite end, I didn’t like most ASPH lenses on the MM sensor (or any digital sensor for that matter) since the look I’m going for is closer to B&W film rather than crazy sharp that you get with the APO / ASPH rendering, but the Lux ASPH 35mm / 50mm are the exception to the rule, and I think they perform really well across all formats. 

Hope this helps, and again it’s my own experience / opinion / taste, others may have different thoughts. 

[250swb]

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16 hours ago, oldwino said:

I agree there are many variables, which is why in this case I am interested in technical qualities only, not artistic choices. Surely there must be combinations that are capable of putting the maximum amount of information into a frame of film. There must be a point where one can say, “that’s the best it can be.”

The hocus pocus is where the art comes in...

Ok, start from the beginning, you will need a heavy tripod and you'll have to use it. You will also need a cable release. Any camera shake at all and your ultimate lens becomes a paperweight. You will need a very high silver content film (which are available) and work through some developers to find one that gives the highest detail and tonal scale.

Using a tripod can improve the rendering of any lens in a high percentage of shots, and especially the best lenses. But call me cynical, it's a magic bullet that's asked for here, not actual tried and tested photography. I also doubt very much that the people replying with their ultimate lens recommendations are using very slow fine grain high silver content film but instead FP4 or Tri-X. So you are asking for technical qualities and maximum information in the frame and getting 'feelings' in return. 

[a.noctilux]

6 hours ago, Erato said:

That sounds pretty awesome, and it looks like my in-depth research paid back already. I guess that I'm lucky for choosing 35 Cron V4 and 50 "Pre-ASPH." for color photography.

And old LTM lenses are for black and white photography. One thing is interesting, on some occasion, the 35 FLE outperforms too perfect as expected.

I've further studies lingering some specific lenses on Summaron and Elmarit, current understanding is that they're all great for torn between analog/digital photography.

According to my research recently, all the documentary indicated that the 35 Corn V1 is famous for B/W photography. I believed that the 35 Corn V1 is a great lens, does it over-rated as told, especially mounted on the modern camera?

Are there any of you who use this lens on the MM, M246, or even M10M? I would very thankful to learn your experience.

Erato,

if you can try it, the first Summicron 35mm, you would see if it suites you.

Long time ago, as lens nut (happy to discover them 😉), I had "35 Cron IV" for decades then discovered the asph. fell in love sold my older 35mm (Lux, Cron 35),

after that I discovered the "35 Cron I" in M3 goggled to use on film and sensor (M9 at that time), then I re-discover the "old lenses" Mandler Magic.

Quickly sold the x 3 "35 Cron asph" to buy the "35 Cron I " for M2 and never been so happy with film, Monochrom or what else 😊.

That said, I keep some 35mm that I don't want to sell as they are not replicable by other lens.

Part of my 35mm for M stable ( already showed many times ), Cron I, two Summaron, Canon LTM, M-Hexanon, two Summilux-M (and more not on this pic ).

I note here that the only "asph" is the Summilux !

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[Erato]

4 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

For the MM and M10M (the ones I tried) definitely 35 cron V1 was my favorite lens to use with it and if I just had to pick one lens that would probably be it. The summilux steel rim V1 35mm was pretty awesome too but only focuses down to 1m which can be limiting for a 35mm. Unfortunately these two lenses are now collector items and way too expensive...so I’d probably recommend going with the Summaron instead. As for 50mm, definitely love the summicron rigid the most, I much prefer it to any other versions. The Collapsible summicron is also lovely with the MM, but much softer wide open than the rigid. 

In term of online reviews, I think that most of them match my own experience that the Cron V1 and Rigid are some of the best lens for B&W. That being said I also love the way these lens render color, so I wouldn’t say they are B&W only lens. For example, I prefer the summicron V1 to the V4 for color digital sensors, and the same goes for the rigid over any other summicron / summilux 50s. On the opposite end, I didn’t like most ASPH lenses on the MM sensor (or any digital sensor for that matter) since the look I’m going for is closer to B&W film rather than crazy sharp that you get with the APO / ASPH rendering, but the Lux ASPH 35mm / 50mm are the exception to the rule, and I think they perform really well across all formats. 

Hope this helps, and again it’s my own experience / opinion / taste, others may have different thoughts. 

Many thanks for your experience sharing.

I feel the same way as you're on the M10M/M10-P. I guess that could be a long road if anyone tries to fill up the great divide from the film lover's perspective. 

A MINT conditional 35mm Corn V1 MINT is relatively hard to get. And most of the items found are either non-acceptable or refurbished. I hold a deep concern about the light path altered already.

All I can do is do nothing until the Alanber knocks on my door if my understanding of the Rigid V1's coating is correct.

 

 

[Erato]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Erato,

if you can try it, the first Summicron 35mm, you would see if it suites you.

Long time ago, as lens nut (happy to discover them 😉), I had "35 Cron IV" for decades then discovered the asph. fell in love sold my older 35mm (Lux, Cron 35),

after that I discovered the "35 Cron I" in M3 goggled to use on film and sensor (M9 at that time), then I re-discover the "old lenses" Mandler Magic.

Quickly sold the x 3 "35 Cron asph" to buy the "35 Cron I " for M2 and never been so happy with film, Monochrom or what else 😊.

That said, I keep some 35mm that I don't want to sell as they are not replicable by other lens.

Part of my 35mm for M stable ( already showed many times ), Cron I, two Summaron, Canon LTM, M-Hexanon, two Summilux-M (and more not on this pic ).

I note here that the only "asph" is the Summilux !

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

You have a good taste of lenses that make everyone envy for sure.

I guess that you may not pleasant about the cosmetic on the top left(Corn).

I'll be happy to be the next owner if possible...^^b

Edited December 29, 2020 by Erato

[Abram]

I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately myself as I only have my M-A at the moment. I've ventured back and forth between way too many digital systems this year and frankly I've just made a mess of things. I'm trying to recalibrate a bit for 2021. 

As such I've been really thinking about the glass I want to use on my M-A. I have swapped quite a few times in recent years but I did spend a full year with just the 35mm Summilux FLE and though it wasn't "perfect" I really liked the work I put out in that year. 

Some past favorites that worked beautifully on film but less-than-satisfactory on digital were the 21mm Super Angulon f/3.4 and DR 50 Summicron. That pairing is just sublime on TMax 400 and I frequently miss it. 

Presently I'm using a 28mm Summicron V1 and a 50mm Summilux V3. I'm quite happy with the rendering signatures, but to be blunt, this year has really not been a particularly fertile creative period for me so I don't want to totally judge them until I can get out and start shooting again. 

[Mr.Prime]

On 12/29/2020 at 2:57 AM, 250swb said:

Ok, start from the beginning, you will need a heavy tripod and you'll have to use it. You will also need a cable release. Any camera shake at all and your ultimate lens becomes a paperweight. You will need a very high silver content film (which are available) and work through some developers to find one that gives the highest detail and tonal scale.

 

why would he need a very high silver content film - most of what I’ve read on the internet (so it must be right!) doesn’t support this ?

[ktmrider2]

I recently had a couple lenses stolen and it has been making me think about my lens mix and if I want to replace both. one or none.  I have found I don't really use anything wider then 35 nor longer than 90.  My favorite M (usually) is the M2 with its great viewfinder of 35, 50, and 90 frame lines.  So, I put my kit into light and heavy lenses for either travel or available light photography.

My light kit is 35f2.8 C Biogon, 50 Summicron (latest version) and soon the 90 Elmarit (latest version) which will be replacing the 90 Tele Elmarit M which was stolen.  My available light kit is 35f1.2 Nokton, 50f1.2 Nokton and 90 Elmarit.  Even though I don't use wider then 35 frequently, I may go with a small and cheap 21 from Voigtlander just to keep in the bag.  I had the 25f2.8 Zeiss stolen but it was only on the camera once in two years of ownership.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by ktmrider2

[bags27]

9 minutes ago, ktmrider2 said:

I recently had a couple lenses stolen and it has been making me think about my lens mix and if I want to replace both. one or none.  I have found I don't really use anything wider then 35 nor longer than 90.  My favorite M (usually) is the M2 with its great viewfinder of 35, 50, and 90 frame lines.  So, I put my kit into light and heavy lenses for either travel or available light photography.

My light kit is 35f2.8 C Biogon, 50 Summicron (latest version) and soon the 90 Elmarit (latest version) which will be replacing the 90 Tele Elmarit M which was stolen.  My available light kit is 35f1.2 Nokton, 50f1.2 Nokton and 90 Elmarit.  Even though I don't use wider then 35 frequently, I may go with a small and cheap 21 from Voigtlander just to keep in the bag.  I had the 25f2.8 Zeiss stolen but it was only on the camera once in two years of ownership.

 

 

Really sorry....

[Dennis]

For people (like me) newbie on film, I have a question. Not all "film(older)" lenses are great for digital, while almost all kinds of lenses perform well (with a different character) on film? Is that correct?
On an M6 with Fuji PRO 400H (to say something), do you think a 35/2.8 Biogon, the TT Charlatan 35/1.4, and a 50APO would guarantee excellent results, despite the different IQ and unique character... Can we talk about IQ for film, or it's a term used only for digital? 🤔

[ktmrider2]

Don't remember the term IQ ever used when referring to film but for the first thirty years of my photography career, I had never heard the term "bokeh" and I still don't give it any attention when evaluating a lens.   The 35 C Biogon is a great lens on either film or digital.  It is small, light, relatively cheap (compared to Leica) and perhaps the sharpest 35mm made.  I think the APO Summicron might be overkill for film and for the price you could own lots of other 50's (several of each) or buy LOTS of film.  If you already own the lens, then use it.  If you are looking to buy, I would look at either the Zeiss 50's or even the Voightlanders.  The 50f1.2 or 50f1.5 Noktons have gotten glowing reviews and the new 50f2 APO from Voightlander for $1000 will probably blow the Leica model out of the water. It may not be sharper but if it is as good as the APO Summicron for 1/7th the price,  stand by!  I know nothing about the 35f1.4 you mention but as long as it couples correctly to the rangefinder cam it should be fine.

Young people tend to forget that 35 film was about the minimum size any professional would use back in the day.  Today a sensor which is the same size as a 24mmx36mm 35mm negative is considered "large".  Remember, resolution in film depends a lot on ISO.  A 50 or 100 ISO film in 35mm could easily go 11x14 while TriX at ISO 400(much less pushed to 1200-1600) might not make it to 11x14 due to grain.  If you really want to make sharp photos from film, use a bigger format (6x6 or even 4x5).  A moderately good lens on medium format will out perform the APO Summicron any day of the week simply because you do not have to enlarge medium format as much as 35mm for the same size print.

I own a 35 C Biogon and it is my favorite 35.  I use it on both film Leica's and an MP240.  I also own a 35f1.2 Nokton for available light.  Additionally, I own two 50's, an f2 and an f1.2 for the same reason.  Finally, I really like the 90 focal length for portraits but even more for landscape.  Am happy with an f2.8 to keep the lens small.  

Good luck.  Film really is fun (but so is digital).

Edited January 1, 2021 by ktmrider2

[Aryel]

7 hours ago, Dennis said:

For people (like me) newbie on film, I have a question. Not all "film(older)" lenses are great for digital, while almost all kinds of lenses perform well (with a different character) on film? Is that correct?
On an M6 with Fuji PRO 400H (to say something), do you think a 35/2.8 Biogon, the TT Charlatan 35/1.4, and a 50APO would guarantee excellent results, despite the different IQ and unique character... Can we talk about IQ for film, or it's a term used only for digital? 🤔

I do not think it is correct: some lenses look better on digital than on film and the opposite. Some lenses look better on black and white film than on colours and so on. This is very subjective and the only way to find out if you like a lens is to try it out... your taste may change over time as well.

For me, I liked the v4 summicron (35 and 50) as well as the summilux 50 pre-asph when I was still shooting colours. I shoot and print only black and white film now and truly love  the summicron rigid 50, summaron 35, summilux 50 pre-asph, 50 elmar-m. I am currently exploring a 35mm summilux pre-asph (love it so far) as well as checking what my 28 look like on prints. My plan is to start selling the lenses that I no longer use/like (the v4 50 will go, still indecided about the rest).

I suggest to not over-think it. Try what you have see if you like it and take it from there. 

One last comment: no lens/film/camera can guarantee excellent results, only you as the photographer can.

Happy new year, have fun shooting!

 

[Dennis]

13 hours ago, Aryel said:

I liked the v4 summicron (35

Why so? What does this 35 have that other Summicron versions haven't? 

 

13 hours ago, Aryel said:

I do not think it is correct: some lenses look better on digital than on film and the opposite. Some lenses look better on black and white film than on colours and so on. This is very subjective and the only way to find out if you like a lens is to try it out... your taste may change over time as well.

I can imagine, sky is the limit. 

[Danner]

I have been shooting, developing, and printing HP5 Plus for the last few months.  From my modest stable of lenses, the one that truly stands out with the vintage look is my 5cm, 2:1 Summitar (LTM, 1952) shot in the f2-f4 range.  Very sharp in the center, some contrast lost at f2, with pleasing bokeh and corner softness.  Makes very nice 8x10 glossies.

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[Aryel]

7 hours ago, Dennis said:

Why so? What does this 35 have that other Summicron versions haven't? 

I purchased after going through a few threads in this forum and mounting an asph and the v4 on the camera. The v4 felt much better to me so went with it.... Never regretted it. I won't sell this one unless I have to for external reasons. Same feeling about the 35 f2.8 summaron. They both rock for me.

I'd love to try the previous versions (v1 is too expensive for now but if the opportunity arise, I'll try a v2 and v3). 

I had a zeiss 35 f2 at some point. The images on colour film were gorgeous but I really did not like the 1/3 stops. The way a lens 'feels' on the camera is very important to me and a big factor on which lens I keep/sell and this was enough for me to sell it back.

Hope this helps.