Leica SL2-S Survey

[Jim B]

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I feel completely ripped off from purchasing the SL2 which does not work to spec. The ever appearing can’t shoot high burst or record 4 k video even when using native SL glass at 3/4 full battery  has never been fixed.  I wouldn’t buy anymore sub par cameras from Leica.
 

 

 

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  Edited December 16, 2020 by Jim B

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[Ron Dorey]

Having enjoyed my SL using dedicated Lenses, I’m disappointed, as I was when Leica brought out an SL2 so soon after the SL, that they now bring out an “ inbetweener “

Not only does the value of my trade in diminish, I don’t see the wisdom in so quickly superseding models every few years.

[Simone_DF]

17 hours ago, BernardC said:

That adapter provides AF performance reminiscent of a 1980s Minolta Maxxum 5000

That adapter nails eye-af, something the current SL2 cannot do.

[Archiver]

I'm in the market for a full frame camera that shoots excellent stills and video. I shoot portraits and sports action, and create documentary and corporate video. The offerings from Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and Sony all have flaws or downsides, either in their physical design, capabilities, or size/handling. The SL2-S comes extremely close, but the autofocus performance remains to be seen, and it lacks even a tilting screen. The Panasonic S5 fits almost everything except for low burst rate and less effective IBIS. The Panasonic S1 has great burst mode and IBIS  but really heavy, even more so than the SL2-S. I prefer a hybrid camera because it minimizes the gear I need to buy and carry.

The other aspect is that I would like to use my M mount lenses in addition to native mount. At this time, only M, SL, SL, TL and CL cameras will handle M mount lenses with minimum issues. CL and TL don't meet what I need for work, so that rules them out. M lenses perform pretty badly on Canon and Sony mirrorless cameras, and the Nikon Z6 is the only other that seems to do fairly well with M lenses. So if M mount lens compatibility is really important to me, the SL2-S is close to the optimum blend of features and performance for my needs.

[Archiver]

1 hour ago, Ron Dorey said:

Having enjoyed my SL using dedicated Lenses, I’m disappointed, as I was when Leica brought out an SL2 so soon after the SL, that they now bring out an “ inbetweener “

Not only does the value of my trade in diminish, I don’t see the wisdom in so quickly superseding models every few years.

The SL2 was brought out about three years after the SL, which is a reasonable product upgrade cycle in today's fast paced world. The SL2-S is built on the SL2 platform, and it has taken them over a year to create. It's much the same as the Panasonic S1H being released within a year after the S1. Remember, Sony brought out the A7r not too long after the A7; Nikon released the Z6 and Z7 at the same time, as did Panasonic with the S1 and S1R. Leica is the only company to have a higher megapixel model stand alone for over a year without a lower megapixel contemporary. My guess is that the SL2 and SL2S will sit in the lineup for at least another three years before a refresh comes.

[MediaFotografie]

vor 28 Minuten schrieb Archiver:

The SL2 was brought out about three years after the SL, which is a reasonable product upgrade cycle in today's fast paced world.

no, four years: November 2015 to November 2019

[Slender]

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5 hours ago, Jim B said:

I feel completely ripped off from purchasing the SL2 which does not work to spec. The ever appearing can’t shoot high burst or record 4 k video even when using native SL glass at 3/4 full battery  has never been fixed.  I wouldn’t buy anymore sub par cameras from Leica.
 

Did you updated your camera to 2.0 and SL lenses, too? Are you using adapters/foreign glass?

[pedaes]

7 minutes ago, Steven said:

M lenses perform better on the SL2-S than on the M cameras. 

As tested by who?

[pedaes]

50 minutes ago, Steven said:

EXCEPT, that there is Ibis,

That is not lens performance. It may help the user get a  image without any motion blur, as does a tripod. 

[SJH]

I think the DPReview sums up the position pretty well, if you want a hybrid or video camera buy something else for better value/performance and buy and SL2 for only £1k more for stills. AF gets a mention for being worse then the S5 and as they’re silent on a comparison to the SL2, I think we can assume they don’t think there is much of a difference as well. ISO better of course as is always normally the case between 24 & 47mb generally and again they complain that for a hybrid the SL2-S should have a pull out screen at least 

 

Strikes me that if you already own and SL2 and really really want a hybrid to go with it buy an S5 for £2k with the excellent 20-60 zoom. I think I might just do that and add it to my SL2 setup, Hugh Brownstone also mentions the S5 in his review as the sweet spot in the L mount alliance as a do it all hybrid.

[BernardC]

8 minutes ago, SJH said:

I think the DPReview sums up the position pretty well, if you want a hybrid or video camera buy something else for better value/performance and buy and SL2 for only £1k more for stills.

Wow, that's one of those "reviews" that spends all of its time talking about specifications, and almost none talking about photography (or cinematography). It reminds me of automobile review programs in the 1980s that only ever talked about "market position," and never about the car itself. Probably for fear of offending the manufacturers, and missing-out on mid-winter trips to Portugal... Those types of programs are probably still around; we get so many (virtual) channels these days that I haven't watched them since I was a child.

In short, it's a salesman's perspective. I use the non-gender-neutral "salesman" because in my experience it's always men who think that way. "Who can I sell this to, and what can I sell them something else for a few dollars more?"

My counterpoint to this review is "It's a modern camera with up-to-date features. Some are class-leading, some are mid-pack. Pick the one you like. Don't worry about having the best version of every single feature, no camera ever does."

[Slender]

Ah, it's IP52

54 for SL2. 😎

25ims certainly also uses 12 bits capture according to sensor specs, and 14 bits for more everyday speeds.

 

[SJH]

27 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Wow, that's one of those "reviews" that spends all of its time talking about specifications, and almost none talking about photography (or cinematography). It reminds me of automobile review programs in the 1980s that only ever talked about "market position," and never about the car itself. Probably for fear of offending the manufacturers, and missing-out on mid-winter trips to Portugal... Those types of programs are probably still around; we get so many (virtual) channels these days that I haven't watched them since I was a child.

In short, it's a salesman's perspective. I use the non-gender-neutral "salesman" because in my experience it's always men who think that way. "Who can I sell this to, and what can I sell them something else for a few dollars more?"

My counterpoint to this review is "It's a modern camera with up-to-date features. Some are class-leading, some are mid-pack. Pick the one you like. Don't worry about having the best version of every single feature, no camera ever does."

I take your point but I think DPReview have a pretty good reputation for calling it how it is having spent a bit of time assessing the specs and stills/video aspects in the real world. I think what they’re really saying is ‘good commercial move by Leica for bringing in a cheaper 24mb version that everyone else has but please get the AF sorted etc’.

[Roberto Watson]

I would certainly buy a SL2 as a focus aid to my M lenses. 

[J12]

I have an M camera for daily carry. Which to my mind remains the best 35mm camera for that purpose. And an SL 601 for the times that I need it. I’m OK with the size and weight of the SL when it is the right tool for the job.

Still images are my primary focus. But the need for video is there on occasion and can see it increasing moving forward.

I’m taking a wait and see approach. The SL 601 is a very capable camera for still images. I can continue to make it work for my needs. Probably for some years to come yet. (Only ever use single point AF and MF lenses.)

No intention of selling the SL 601 as long as it continues to remain useful for still images. Video might persuade me to look at adding an SL2-S to pair with the SL 601 at some point. But that’s a decision for when a real need arises. So as yet remain undecided and haven’t voted in the poll.

The new redesigned body introduced with the SL2 / SL2-S would be my biggest hesitation. I simply prefer the original SL 601. It’s been mentioned before, but the industrial design of the original SL 601 feels superior with its clean and simple execution and 4 button interface. The design of the original SL was a remarkable achievement that set a very high standard as the first model in this new range of cameras.

It looks like compromises have been made with the redesign of the SL2 / SL2-S body. The protruding rear screen (no longer flush with the body) and its change to 3 buttons. Seemingly borrowed from the CL parts bin and stuck on. The change from all aluminum unibody to construction with cleanly integrated strap lugs. Now just a decorative aluminum top plate which is not structurally integral to the camera body as it was with the SL. Resulting in the crude implementation of large strap lugs lower down on the side. The horseshoe collar around the lens mount also seems unnecessary and references old Single Lens Reflex cameras with mirror assemblies, which the SL series is not. The flat front facia of the original SL seemed to more clearly signify the distinction between mirrorless and SLR.

I can understand there are probably business reasons for these changes. Economies of scale using shared parts and overalll lower production costs. But as a consumer, all I see is the end product offered by the company. It feels like the bean counters stepped in and compromises were encouraged. The original SL seemed more in line with the professional S series. Where as the redesigned body seems to bring it a step closer to being an expendable digital commodity, destined for inevitable obsolescence. Although I recognize it still to be better than offerings from other manufactures.  

In time, the current excitement over the very recent incremental improvements in digital tech will have long been superseded and forgotten. When we look back with the benefit of a greater perspective afforded to us over time, the strength of the original SL’s industrial design will remain and possibly garner more appreciation. Especially as the first entry in this new range.

I feel I might skip this generation and continue with the SL 601 for as long as I can make it work. Possibly investing in more glass if anything. Prioritizing lenses is an old piece of advice in photography, but perhaps still some truth to it even in the digital age.

I’m a little fatigued by the never-ending upgrade cycle and short lifespan of digital bodies. My most recent decision was to purchase a brand new M-A instead and step away from the digital upgrade cycle for a bit. (Started on film pre-digital.)

Edited December 17, 2020 by J12

[Jim B]

18 hours ago, Slender said:

Did you updated your camera to 2.0 and SL lenses, too? Are you using adapters/foreign glass?

Of Course. Using Leica SL lenses no adapters ...... lots of people post about the problem.  I think Leica even spoke about it in an article or video. It’s a design flaw power issue they have no idea how to fix, so they created  the error message. Who ever heard of a camera that can’t high speed burst shoot at 3/4 full battery. It’s truly shameful!    Do you have an Sl2?  Use it on Photo shoot, then decide to high speed burst and the camera will error out. 

[Slender]

5 hours ago, Jim B said:

Of Course. Using Leica SL lenses no adapters ...... lots of people post about the problem.  I think Leica even spoke about it in an article or video. It’s a design flaw power issue they have no idea how to fix, so they created  the error message. Who ever heard of a camera that can’t high speed burst shoot at 3/4 full battery. It’s truly shameful!    Do you have an Sl2?  Use it on Photo shoot, then decide to high speed burst and the camera will error out. 

I am sorry you are experimenting these issues so bad. Yes, SL2 is my system now for pro work (I was M only before... I do stills mostly, but developping the video side atm).
Coming from M only, I rarely snap anything faster than 2/3 fps anyway,. For video, I do get the power supply message but only when the battery is below 25%. It is still annoying of course, but for video I have been using the USB-C port to supply the camera with juice. So far so good...

I am sorry if this sounds silly, but have you tried resetting the camera after updating both body/lens firmware, the complete factory reset?

I wish leica would update their batteries with a similar form factor like Canon does for the immortal LPe6 platform...
 

[Slender]

If one likes very, very special and shiny toys for christmas:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CI31S0jB-nZ/

you can then mount mini v-lock batteries! how cute... 😍 and you can power your atomos like this, too!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CDBbNpACt4u/

Or USB-C with PD powerbanks in me pockets do just fine for hours and hours on the same battery. Otherwise I have 3 SL batteries (must have on set anyway, just in case).

Other would like to add the grip. Or make to order your very own D-TAP to faux/dummy SL battery cable. It exist for many other cameras...

All these options are great when the camera needs to be turned on for hours while setting up shots, multiple takes, or for extended interviews.

You dont need any of that for casual, "butterfly" or so called "chance" shooting. Keep it light.

Also the more familiar you get with the camera, the less juice you waste in the menus and reviewing stuff, and then magically battery life complaints tends to fade away from forums. It's always a big topic at most camera debuts b/c we spend to much time toying around 😅

 

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[michali]

10 hours ago, Jim B said:

Of Course. Using Leica SL lenses no adapters ...... lots of people post about the problem.  I think Leica even spoke about it in an article or video. It’s a design flaw power issue they have no idea how to fix, so they created  the error message. Who ever heard of a camera that can’t high speed burst shoot at 3/4 full battery. It’s truly shameful!    Do you have an Sl2?  Use it on Photo shoot, then decide to high speed burst and the camera will error out. 

 

4 hours ago, Slender said:

I am sorry you are experimenting these issues so bad. Yes, SL2 is my system now for pro work (I was M only before... I do stills mostly, but developping the video side atm).
Coming from M only, I rarely snap anything faster than 2/3 fps anyway,. For video, I do get the power supply message but only when the battery is below 25%. It is still annoying of course, but for video I have been using the USB-C port to supply the camera with juice. So far so good...

I am sorry if this sounds silly, but have you tried resetting the camera after updating both body/lens firmware, the complete factory reset?

I wish leica would update their batteries with a similar form factor like Canon does for the immortal LPe6 platform...
 

I've had the camera for a year & it's really annoying. I hardly ever shoot in burst mode, but when I needed to, it happened this morning at about 50% battery level. I got the following message (it happens with both Leica SL & Sigma L mount lenses):

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Edited December 17, 2020 by michali

[Photoworks]

4 hours ago, michali said:

I've had the camera for a year & it's really annoying. I hardly ever shoot in burst mode, but when I needed to, it happened this morning at about 50% battery level. I got the following message (it happens with both Leica SL & Sigma L mount lenses):

 

the problem is the sigma L adapter. I stoped using it and rested the camera, I only using native lenses now and I am not getting the note anymore.

The only solution is a firmware fix, but most of all for now you need the vertical grip and extra battery. USB Power does not charge quick enough , even using the newer quick charge technology .

Let's face it, It is a flow!