Leica SL2-S Survey

[Slender]

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5 hours ago, oka said:

2. How it’s possible that SL2-S has improved so much on the battery life

Well if your sensor produces half the pixel count and data the processor has to churn through, that is easily comprehensible.... Perhaps it translate to video too if the oversampling methos is more efficient than pixel mixing from 8K to 4K (4 times less pixels), but data rates on cards are similar.

The SL2 downscaled to 24mp gives matching results to SL2s in stills up to 6400-12500 iso

[Steven]

21 minutes ago, Slender said:

Well if your sensor produces half the pixel count and data the processor has to churn through, that is easily comprehensible.... Perhaps it translate to video too if the oversampling methos is more efficient than pixel mixing from 8K to 4K (4 times less pixels), but data rates on cards are similar.

The SL2 downscaled to 24mp gives matching results to SL2s in stills up to 6400-12500 iso

I can confirm to you two things. 
1. the battery of the sl2s is better than most mirrorless flagship of 2020 so far for me BUT I’ve only used it with MF lenses (M). I did intense shooting and video and the battery easily lasted the whole day. 
 

2. I was able to record video with less than 5% battery without issue. 

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[Flyer]

Let's face it almost any camera takes excellent IQ, only a small amount of time when you Pixel peep can you see any meaningful difference. It all about the photographer and their ability to create a piece of work that meets their/clients needs. 

I just received the SL2-S and it hits all the sweet spots for me. I can use Sigma and Panasonic lenses without worrying about needing Leica lenses to resolve the high resolution sensor of the SL2. Also my iMac can process the images with ease and the ISO helps me with low light wildlife with the 100-400. So in a nutshell, versatility and the Leica feel whilst not breaking the bank. 

[Tom1234]

On 12/18/2020 at 4:50 AM, Archiver said:

If this is true, then this is my next M-body, with the added bonus of being able to use autofocus lenses. The SL2-S is less expensive at full retail than a secondhand M10, even here in Australia.

Check this out on the pricing subject…. it is an important topic for Leica going foward: 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Tom1234

[Dr. G]

49 minutes ago, Flyer said:

Let's face it almost any camera takes excellent IQ, only a small amount of time when you Pixel peep can you see any meaningful difference. It all about the photographer and their ability to create a piece of work that meets their/clients needs. 

I just received the SL2-S and it hits all the sweet spots for me. I can use Sigma and Panasonic lenses without worrying about needing Leica lenses to resolve the high resolution sensor of the SL2. Also my iMac can process the images with ease and the ISO helps me with low light wildlife with the 100-400. So in a nutshell, versatility and the Leica feel whilst not breaking the bank. 

As much as I mostly agree, even those I know with little photographic and image science knowledge somehow prefer the look of the images from the SL2/APO Summucron-SL 50mm to that of the Canon R5/Canon RF 50mm f1.2 when both images are made at f2.   I did a comparison on a tripod with a few different relatively non demanding images but unfortunately on one set the shutter speeds were slightly off as I was trying to match the histograms.  I’ve refrained from posting the comparison because I’ve witnessed some relative intolerance to even the mention of other systems in the forum.

if there’s interest in seeing them, let me know and I can message them privately for anyone to come to their own conclusion.  My observation is that both pairings are very sharp, the Canon pairing has smoother out of focus rendering, the Leica has better micro contrast and better texture in the highlights and shadows.  
 

I would post them if anyone wants to see them, but as I awake this morning I think I’m going to take the leap of faith and collect the SL2-S.

[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, Tom1234 said:

Check this out on the pricing subject…. it is an important topic for Leica going foward: 

 

 

Yes, and that proposition led to instant unanimous agreement among the participants😁

[RBB]

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5 hours ago, Steven said:

I can confirm to you two things. 
1. the battery of the sl2s is better than most mirrorless flagship of 2020 so far for me BUT I’ve only used it with MF lenses (M). I did intense shooting and video and the battery easily lasted the whole day. 
 

2. I was able to record video with less than 5% battery without issue. 

Did you also use M lenses for the 5% battery video test? I can imaging that a power consuming autofocus lens with OIS will bring on the same message.

If they fixed the "battery power not sufficient" for the SL2's there might be some hope for us SL2 users. Problem drives me sometimes crazy. Now always carry two extra full battery's.

[Steven]

8 minutes ago, RBB said:

Did you also use M lenses for the 5% battery video test? I can imaging that a power consuming autofocus lens with OIS will bring on the same message.

If they fixed the "battery power not sufficient" for the SL2's there might be some hope for us SL2 users. Problem drives me sometimes crazy. Now always carry two extra full battery's.

Yes. 
i did try below 50% with an AF native lens and it worked fine. Not sure when sl2 users are getting the alert. 
 

[BernardC]

11 hours ago, oka said:

1. Why Leica didn’t use sensor used in M10R on SL2 and why SL2 sensor where especially in DR is much worse than in Panasonic where it uses basically same sensor. It’s probably worst in that regard to any 40+mpx bodies in currently available by large margin.

2. How it’s possible that SL2-S has improved so much on the battery life

3. Was the SL2-S a merely “bug fix” for the SL2?

1. Leica developed two versions of the SL2: one with 40MP and one with 47MP. The latter won-out, we don't know why. It may have had a lot to do with getting a product out faster.

1 (part 2). Are you seeing this in highlights, shadows, or both? Leica rates the sensor differently. Their ISO 50 is Panasonic's ISO 100, and so on all the way to ISO 25,000 (which behaves exactly the same as what Panasonic calls ISO 50,000). What this means in practice is that the SL2 has more shadow range than the S1-R, at the same nominal ISO, but it has less highlight range.

2. Different sensor, smaller images (less CPU and I/O)

3. Definitely not. The SL2 is for everyone who moaned and complained that Leica didn't offer a big-megapixel SL. The SL2-S is more of a traditional Leica camera: low-light, hand-held, etc... Same box, different contents.

[RBB]

16 minutes ago, Steven said:

Yes. 
i did try below 50% with an AF native lens and it worked fine. Not sure when sl2 users are getting the alert. 
 

thanks, happens at different moments, difficult to predict, with Sigma lenses sometimes below 70%, Panasonic 70-200 does better with 50% as critical, with native Leica 24-90 roughly at 25%. 

[Dr. G]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

1. Leica developed two versions of the SL2: one with 40MP and one with 47MP. The latter won-out, we don't know why. It may have had a lot to do with getting a product out faster.

1 (part 2). Are you seeing this in highlights, shadows, or both? Leica rates the sensor differently. Their ISO 50 is Panasonic's ISO 100, and so on all the way to ISO 25,000 (which behaves exactly the same as what Panasonic calls ISO 50,000). What this means in practice is that the SL2 has more shadow range than the S1-R, at the same nominal ISO, but it has less highlight range.

2. Different sensor, smaller images (less CPU and I/O)

3. Definitely not. The SL2 is for everyone who moaned and complained that Leica didn't offer a big-megapixel SL. The SL2-S is more of a traditional Leica camera: low-light, hand-held, etc... Same box, different contents.

In terms of number 3, this is why I ended up picking up the SL2-S.  
 

Q2-S, anyone?

[Steven]

30 minutes ago, Dr. G said:

Q2-S, anyone?

Off topic, I know, but before the Q2-S or Q3, I hope Leica brings the AF algorithm improvement to the awful AF of the Q line. 

[Daedalus2000]

13 hours ago, Dr. G said:

As much as I mostly agree, even those I know with little photographic and image science knowledge somehow prefer the look of the images from the SL2/APO Summucron-SL 50mm to that of the Canon R5/Canon RF 50mm f1.2 when both images are made at f2.   I did a comparison on a tripod with a few different relatively non demanding images but unfortunately on one set the shutter speeds were slightly off as I was trying to match the histograms.  I’ve refrained from posting the comparison because I’ve witnessed some relative intolerance to even the mention of other systems in the forum.

if there’s interest in seeing them, let me know and I can message them privately for anyone to come to their own conclusion.  My observation is that both pairings are very sharp, the Canon pairing has smoother out of focus rendering, the Leica has better micro contrast and better texture in the highlights and shadows.  
 

I would post them if anyone wants to see them, but as I awake this morning I think I’m going to take the leap of faith and collect the SL2-S.

I would be interested to see them because I am considering the R5 vs the SL2-S

[Steven]

9 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

I would be interested to see them because I am considering the R5 vs the SL2-S

DO you plan to use M lenses on the R5? Has anyone ever tried that ? I hear a lot about M lenses on Sonys but not R5. 

[Daedalus2000]

32 minutes ago, Steven said:

DO you plan to use M lenses on the R5? Has anyone ever tried that ? I hear a lot about M lenses on Sonys but not R5. 

I used them with the Canon R and it was not good at all. I am more interested in R5+50 f1.2 vs SL2-S and the 50 SL summilux setup.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Daedalus2000

[Steven]

3 minutes ago, Daedalus2000 said:

I used them with the Canon R and it was not good at all. I am more interested in R5+50 f1.2 vs SL2-S and the 50 SL summilux setup.

On paper, the Canon setup is far superior. 
In real life, very very few people will notice a difference. 
In essence, it’s all about which camera you’ll enjoy more using, and wether or not you believe in the Leica magic. I suppose you do if you’re hanging around here. 
 

do you plan to do any video ? 

[Daedalus2000]

5 minutes ago, Steven said:

On paper, the Canon setup is far superior. 
In real life, very very few people will notice a difference. 
In essence, it’s all about which camera you’ll enjoy more using, and wether or not you believe in the Leica magic. I suppose you do if you’re hanging around here. 
 

do you plan to do any video ? 

As I agreed with you in the past, I do prefer the Leica experience and colors and the sense of 3d and microcontrast I get from using Leica lenses. I have checked R5 pics on the internet and I do not see the same "bite" and impact from them, but maybe I have not looked enough. But the Canon AF looks amazing. I used to use Canon many years ago, then I got an Leica M8 and I was hooked... I do have an M10-D as well, but over the years my eyes are getting worse and I think AF is the better solution. Also I have to admit, I find the Leica lens prices a bit too high, so I always look for alternatives...

I do not do video at all...

Edited December 20, 2020 by Daedalus2000

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, Steven said:

DO you plan to use M lenses on the R5? Has anyone ever tried that ? I hear a lot about M lenses on Sonys but not R5. 

FYI: the best non-Leica camera for M lenses is likely Nikon Z 7 (thin glass stack).

[Dr. G]

16 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

I would be interested to see them because I am considering the R5 vs the SL2-S

I will post two pairs of images - in the first, the shutter speeds were different between the Canon R5 and the SL2 as I was trying to match exposures.  because the shutter speeds are different the shadow and highlight rendering probably shouldn't be scrutinized.  In the second set I adjusted the exposure compensation so that shutter speeds were matched.  Each image was taken on a tripod that I didn't reposition (interesting that even though they are both 50mm the FOV is slightly different between the two), ISO 100, electronic shutter to minimize shutter shock and vibration, shutter timer to avoid vibration and both are taken at f2.

First, the SL2 and 50mm APO Summicron-SL, f/2, 1/2000, ISO 100

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Edited December 20, 2020 by Dr. G

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Dr. G]

Canon R5 with RF 50 1.2 taken at f2, 1/2500, ISO 100

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