hdmesa Posted November 11, 2020 Share #41 Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, cboy said: Dpreview stated problems with internal reflections coming off the sensor 🤔 ... My GFX makes that terrible sensor reflection pattern – but you have to be stopped down to f/16-f/22 and literally shooting the sun huge in the frame. Basically you can forget about making nice sunstars, but that's not a dealbreaker for many/most. But don't think they are talking about some sort of image-destroying "reflections" – it's just that sensor dot pattern around the sun. And B&H's overview of the Q2M has MUCH better examples of the image rendering. The photographer did well to shoot in nice environmental conditions, found detailed subjects with a nice range of tones, and expertly post-processed them. Even the video samples of the water on the car grill/hood look amazing. Edited November 11, 2020 by hdmesa 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 11, 2020 Posted November 11, 2020 Hi hdmesa, Take a look here Leica Q2 Monochrom. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lx1713 Posted November 11, 2020 Share #42 Posted November 11, 2020 It may well be my first Leica camera I might purchase for non professional use. A hobby camera 😃 I already have the Q2 but the 47 mp files keeps it firmly for pro usage. The files are too large for my personal casual shooting. It will be the same problem with the Monochrom but it's really tempting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nameBrandon Posted November 11, 2020 Share #43 Posted November 11, 2020 I pulled my pre-order.. 😕 Leica, you just threw too much in at once.. I knew the Q2M was coming, I had made my peace with the $5,000 pricing knowing I was still a bit hesitant on a monochrom Q.. I was all in, ready to go.. Then you made me think about it all over again with the new pricing, and I just decided I can have more fun with other toys for $6k. I guess this is better, someone who really wants it will hopefully get one! I think my "full-color" Q2 is breathing a sigh of relief because I wasn't going to keep them both.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m410 Posted November 11, 2020 Share #44 Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Another beautiful and desirable Leica camera that will not be reasonably buyable for another year... Edited November 11, 2020 by m410 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboy Posted November 11, 2020 Share #45 Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, hdmesa said: Basically you can forget about making nice sunstars, but that's not a dealbreaker for many/most. But don't think they are talking about some sort of image-destroying "reflections" – it's just that sensor dot pattern around the sun. That nasty sensor pattern is obvious its artificial and destroys the image. From the looks of the example photos even shooting at a oblique angle away for the sun will likey may induce the effect. There are many instance where a person maybe shooting against the sun in which case theyll be forever second guessing if the effect will happen. Street photographers capturing a street afternoon scene against the light for instance. 6k for a flaw that limits photographic opportunity in many cases is not good imho. Its not flare. Its a inherent flaw. Edited November 11, 2020 by cboy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted November 11, 2020 Share #46 Posted November 11, 2020 You could easily crop to 35mm, maybe even 50mm and still get beautiful and sharp images. The guy in the B&H video above claims it's like having a 5x4 large format camera in a compact design. Looking forward to seeing what people create with this camera. Some of the early images look almost eye-wateringly sharp and contrasty. Which is nice to have, but the tonality, the highlights, and what is possible are what interest me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinch123 Posted November 11, 2020 Share #47 Posted November 11, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 10 hours ago, darylgo said: LOL, many of my electronics do that currently, I miss my Commodore 64. 50 apo Q would be sweet. Might be able to do something about the C64! Do a search for Commodore 64 (Deep Silver) on Amazon. The guys who made the C64 Mini (bunch of games, no functioning keyboard) have just released a full-sized version with working keyboard, bundled games, the basic interpreter.... basically works like the original. It's a lot faster, and can drive an LCD panel over HDMI. Released on November 5 and sold out immediately. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zapp Posted November 11, 2020 Share #48 Posted November 11, 2020 vor 21 Stunden schrieb Paul Reading: Presumable we have to use real filters again. New Leica E49 yellow, orange and green filters are available, €140. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp2000 Posted November 11, 2020 Share #49 Posted November 11, 2020 19 hours ago, Dennis said: It's a beautiful design, as always. Great specs. To be interested in purchase, in my ideal world, the Leica Q2M should have come with: 35mm FL (1.4, 1.t or even f/2), but 35mm at least 1/4000 Better display resolution (or even tilting screen) But it's me. With electronic shutter you are getting up to 1/40000 - which is one of the reasons I love the Q/Q2 - shooting wide open in bright sunlight without need for a ND. I know it is imperfect in some scenarios, but for 95% of shooting (or more) then its just fine. Appreciate some will prefer just to use mechanical, but from recollection the shutter settings allow electronic to kick in >1/2000 if shooting in Av, so its reasonably seamless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 11, 2020 Share #50 Posted November 11, 2020 9 hours ago, cboy said: That nasty sensor pattern is obvious its artificial and destroys the image. From the looks of the example photos even shooting at a oblique angle away for the sun will likey may induce the effect. There are many instance where a person maybe shooting against the sun in which case theyll be forever second guessing if the effect will happen. Street photographers capturing a street afternoon scene against the light for instance. 6k for a flaw that limits photographic opportunity in many cases is not good imho. Its not flare. Its a inherent flaw. Well The dPreview video is nicely done, and those reflections look fairly unpleasant. so I went through all my pictures with the Q2M, several of which were straight into the sun and I didn’t see a single example (mind you I don’t usually stop down that far) I should have another camera soon and will investigate further! 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Posted November 11, 2020 Share #51 Posted November 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Tp2000 said: Appreciate some will prefer just to use mechanical, but from recollection the shutter settings allow electronic to kick in >1/2000 if shooting in Av, so its reasonably seamless. I do prefer much more the mechanical shutter. The silent shutter is very helpful, and the only option for some case (due to the sound restrictions). But the electronic shutter could have many problems that the mechanical one doesn't, it's much more risk free. I prefer 1/4,000 mechanical than 1/40,000 electronic. That's why 1/2000 mechanical on Q2 is short, I would had prefer 1/20,000 electronic but 1/4,000 mechanic. Does it make sense? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted November 11, 2020 Share #52 Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, jonoslack said: Well The dPreview video is nicely done, and those reflections look fairly unpleasant. so I went through all my pictures with the Q2M, several of which were straight into the sun and I didn’t see a single example (mind you I don’t usually stop down that far) I should have another camera soon and will investigate further! 14 hours ago, cboy said: That nasty sensor pattern is obvious its artificial and destroys the image. From the looks of the example photos even shooting at a oblique angle away for the sun will likey may induce the effect. There are many instance where a person maybe shooting against the sun in which case theyll be forever second guessing if the effect will happen. Street photographers capturing a street afternoon scene against the light for instance. 6k for a flaw that limits photographic opportunity in many cases is not good imho. Its not flare. Its a inherent flaw. It doesn't happen from every angle, but when it does, it's pretty bad. I think this is related to non-BSI sensors using small microlenses to help improve performance with wide angle lenses. I've seen these on my GFX and Q. They are very easy to produce on the GFX wide angle lenses but harder to reproduce on the Q. Example below from the DPR review of the GF 30 shows this, but shots taken at other angles in their samples do not show the reflections. https://www.dpreview.com/samples/8431037430/the-gf-30mm-f3-5-r-wr-sample-gallery-dpreview-tv Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Here is an example of the sensor reflection from the Q on a few random shots from a while back. It's going to depend on f-stop (must be very small), angle to the sun, intensity of the sun, and focus distance (infinity focus is worse, close focus hides the reflections). I've not tested if having a protective filter on the camera makes it worse, but I'm sure it doesn't help. Edited November 11, 2020 by hdmesa 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Here is an example of the sensor reflection from the Q on a few random shots from a while back. It's going to depend on f-stop (must be very small), angle to the sun, intensity of the sun, and focus distance (infinity focus is worse, close focus hides the reflections). I've not tested if having a protective filter on the camera makes it worse, but I'm sure it doesn't help. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314986-leica-q2-monochrom/?do=findComment&comment=4078471'>More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted November 11, 2020 Share #53 Posted November 11, 2020 Scratch that. Not an issue related to non-BSI sensors since the DPReview GF 30 samples were taken with the GFX 100. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nwphil Posted November 11, 2020 Share #54 Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, hdmesa said: It doesn't happen from every angle, but when it does, it's pretty bad. I think this is related to non-BSI sensors using small microlenses to help improve performance with wide angle lenses. I've seen these on my GFX and Q. They are very easy to produce on the GFX wide angle lenses but harder to reproduce on the Q. Example below from the DPR review of the GF 30 shows this, but shots taken at other angles in their samples do not show the reflections. https://www.dpreview.com/samples/8431037430/the-gf-30mm-f3-5-r-wr-sample-gallery-dpreview-tv Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Here is an example of the sensor reflection from the Q on a few random shots from a while back. It's going to depend on f-stop (must be very small), angle to the sun, intensity of the sun, and focus distance (infinity focus is worse, close focus hides the reflections). I've not tested if having a protective filter on the camera makes it worse, but I'm sure it doesn't help. I have seem something very similar in other camera brands - and ofcourse some lenses may amplify this effect even more.So it's this really a downside of digital film? or this camera in particular? Would similar flare would ever occur in film cameras assuming very similar lens would be used? ps: not trolling - I am really considering the Q2M... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboy Posted November 11, 2020 Share #55 Posted November 11, 2020 Depending on use case there are those that use small apertures f8 f11 etc for the purpose of greater dof when hyperfocal distancing is used. Granted most modern lens achieve highest resolution at middle apertures at f5.6 / f4 it probably wont be an issue for some like some have said here, however its still a limiting factor especially for a fixed wide angle which seems to cause the greatest effect. Perhaps it could be because of Q2Ms new micro lens sensor... Its a shame because apart from that the images look fantastic. Now im considering of holding back purchase because it limits its application that i would have used ithe Q2M for. Imho. The sensor pattern looks even more obvious in black and white than it does in colour. Lol. Maybe because i have more affinity to black and white lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted November 12, 2020 Share #56 Posted November 12, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, nwphil said: I have seem something very similar in other camera brands - and ofcourse some lenses may amplify this effect even more.So it's this really a downside of digital film? or this camera in particular? Would similar flare would ever occur in film cameras assuming very similar lens would be used? ps: not trolling - I am really considering the Q2M... Thanks 3 hours ago, cboy said: Depending on use case there are those that use small apertures f8 f11 etc for the purpose of greater dof when hyperfocal distancing is used. Granted most modern lens achieve highest resolution at middle apertures at f5.6 / f4 it probably wont be an issue for some like some have said here, however its still a limiting factor especially for a fixed wide angle which seems to cause the greatest effect. Perhaps it could be because of Q2Ms new micro lens sensor... Its a shame because apart from that the images look fantastic. Now im considering of holding back purchase because it limits its application that i would have used ithe Q2M for. Imho. The sensor pattern looks even more obvious in black and white than it does in colour. Lol. Maybe because i have more affinity to black and white lol I think it affects all mirrorless, but some sensor and lens combinations more (GFX with GF lenses). You will only see this at f/16-22 and only when shooting directly into the sun and only when focused at or near infinity. How in love are you with sunstars? I love sunstars, but I maybe shoot two a year and only one at infinity Everyone shooting landscape is moving to focus stacking at around f/5.6 if they need ultimate DOF anyway. And I don't think there are a lot of street shooters doing f/22 straight into the sun, either. Edited November 12, 2020 by hdmesa 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted November 12, 2020 Share #57 Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 6:48 PM, lx1713 said: It may well be my first Leica camera I might purchase for non professional use. A hobby camera 😃 I already have the Q2 but the 47 mp files keeps it firmly for pro usage. The files are too large for my personal casual shooting. It will be the same problem with the Monochrom but it's really tempting. Could you explain the reasoning here? Why would the higher resolution images be unsuitable for non-professional usage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giguchan Posted November 12, 2020 Share #58 Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 11:47 AM, Leica28 said: B&H Photo has it available for pre-order. What a nice addition to my lovely Q2.... We think alike! Thats exactly what i said!! Can't wait untill i properly travel again! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giguchan Posted November 12, 2020 Share #59 Posted November 12, 2020 17 hours ago, Peter Zapp said: New Leica E49 yellow, orange and green filters are available, €140. Silly question here... Leica filters better than B+W? Thanks!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giguchan Posted November 12, 2020 Share #60 Posted November 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 11:21 PM, m410 said: Another beautiful and desirable Leica camera that will not be reasonably buyable for another year... I hope not.... but you might be right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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