Using flash anyone? Any recommendation?

[sean_reid]

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Here's a picture of my typical RF flash setup (shown with the Epson). I do the same with the M8. Not shown is the wrist strap that mounts to the flash itself using a tripod screw.

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[sean_reid]

Yes and i run into 20 ft ceilings all the time at hotels when doing corporate gigs. So the stofen does help here because hitting 20 ft up on a straight bounce will not work very well.

 

That's true too.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[cliffordjim]

[*]The Canon 580 EX v2 has a thyristor, and an A mode, unlike the 580 V1 or the 550, Canon calls it "E" mode. No fooling. Custom function 5-3 sets the flash to use the external sensor.

[*]You can dial in any aperture (from f1.0 up) and any ISO and the flash will compute the right amount. Exposure seems just about right with direct flash, and perhaps a stop down when bouncing (common enough with A mode).

 

Is there any other flash out there that I can dial down to f1 or at least 1.4 or 2.8 in A mode? Or a way to adjust my Nikon flashes? It would be nice to be able to work in Auto mode (one less thing to forget on the job).

 

I have the Nikon SB25 and the SB800. In A mode they only dial down to 5.6 at 640 ISO which just does not cut it for me in certain situations. I don't want to buy a new Canon flash as I use Nikon equipment when I'm not in Leica mode. The Leica SF20 goes down to 2.8 which I have and use but is a bit harsh even with diffusers.

 

Jamie, you have mentioned manual mode. Do you ever use it to shoot at wide open apertures? I see that if I dial down to 1/64 power on the SB25 I could shoot 1.4 at 640 ISO at 15 feet, theoretically with a bounce card I could reduce this distance in half but what about getting in closer? throw on a stofen? Any tips?

 

Thanks!

[Jamie Roberts]

@ Guy--you should try the 20ft bounce with a powerful flash. If you don't mind some ambient mixing, it works really, really well, actually. I'm more worried if the ceiling isn't white or is like 40ft high But if it's white and you're at ISO 640 you get a much better light (bigger, more diffuse) than a stofen. I've mostly junked all my flash diffusers except a large-ish soft box after I actually did studio tests on them.

 

(shooting with dark brown ceilings and walls is a completely different thing, though. I have a shoot through thing for just those occasions).

 

But even with high ceilings, that little white card on the 580 / Nikon stuff is often all you need for catchlight and some forward light. Course the Metz has that twinkle light too...

 

Course I'm shooting between 2.8 and f4 like that...not enough oomph for f8 in a dark hall

 

@Jim--you can dial the Metz 54 down to 1/256 in manual mode, which is indeed a stop less powerful than the 580s. But in "A" mode on the 580 V2 it's obviously more variable.

 

@Sean--I'm really truly hating my safe-synch a lot because it only lets me put the 580 on top of the M8 and NOT connect to a PW at the same time.

 

This is not optimal--I like lighting up a hall with portable radio strobes (and you don't need that much power to do a lot of good in most places).

 

Of course it's the M8's fault, really: where is the PC connect?! One hot shoe doth not a flash system make. And I really don't want to use a bracket. The PW screws into the tripod socket really well, and the 580 sits on the shoe. If only there were a way to fire both at the same time...

 

(INSTANT BRAINSTORM: I know how to do it. Heck!! Why didn't I see this before?

 

I'll get a Kaiser cold shoe to PC adapter, and mount that on the M8, and attach that to the PW. Then run the "local flash" output mini-to-PC adapter to the 580 sitting in the cold shoe. Amazing!! Must run to try it out.

 

This, BTW, has the added benefit of being completely and totally safe for the M8 and the flash!!--> NO safe-synch needed!).

 

Anyway, before my brainstorm, above, I finally stopped using the safe-synch because of intermittent problems with the 580 and just attached my 580 V2 directly, where I had no problems at all.

 

The 580 V2 has a short / circuit protector (one reason it doesn't work with the safe-synch very well) anyway. So far so good (great, actually; I'll post some more from Sunday's wedding to show folks)

 

More on the 580 v2.... the M8 and that 580v2 thing work like they were made for each other.

 

For example, by default, the 580v2 has a power saver mode, which would be totally annoying (and can be turned off by a custom function) EXCEPT that the M8's shutter actually wakes the flash right up!

 

"Tap tap" flash is ready! Just like the 5d

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I mix all the time , 20 ft is just to high for direct bounce , reason for the stofen

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Jamie check out Micro sync. Love this setup

 

http://www.microsyncdigital.com/

[cme4brain]

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I don't like the 24D at all. It's weak and uses special batteries rather than AA batteries like all normal flashes. I'm told that it can be used with an off-shoe Metz cord, which is helpful, but I would never own one or use it for a shoot. On camera, of course, it can't move. I think that if it weren't designed to work with Leicas, no one would give it a second look.

 

Jamie's suggestion of the 580 is a good one. I own Canon flashes but with the M8 I use something even simpler that packs a lot of juice and can be dialed in manually - the venerable Vivitar 285. I have a Wein on the M8 and the remote sensor adapter in the shoe, the cord then goes to the flash which I hold in my left hand so that I can aim it anywhere I want at will. There's also a wrist strap so that it can dangle if I need to use my left hand, momentarily, to change focus, aperture, etc.

 

I need three things from a flash:

 

1. It has to work well off-camera.

2. It has to pack a lot of juice.

3. It needs to use AA batteries or a belt power pack so that I can keep it fed during long, intense, shoots.

 

In general, once one starts bouncing from behind the camera, there's rarely such a thing as a flash that is too powerful. Ditto for bouncing off the canvas ceilings of reception tents. Its easy enough to dial a flash down but there's no way to get more light from it than it can provide.

 

Cheers,

 

I agree about the Leica 24D flash, even though I own one. It is good for indoor, non-professional photography. Leica has always been behind the times as far as flash photography is concerned, and they can get away with it in the M line as many M photographers don't use flash much.

[Jamie Roberts]

Jamie check out Micro sync. Love this setup

 

MicroSync Digital - the Smallest, Smartest Wireless Strobe Sync System.

 

Yeah, those are sweet. Already have PWs out the wazoo, and in, fact, those Microsynch guys won't let you fire a local flash as well as remote, right? That's ultimately what I want to do, so I think only the PWs let you do that?

 

Hey Guy, on the Stofen bounce thing too, maybe I misunderstood--I'm saying that 20ft isn't too high for a direct bounce with a powerful flash (like the 580 or the Metz 54), and I understand you saying it is...but are you then implying you use the Stofen direct to the subject or do you use it to broaden the bounce?

 

LOL!! Just trying to figure this out, is all FWIW, when I tried the Stofens out they just didn't do much for me.

[wlaidlaw]

Jamie check out Micro sync. Love this setup

 

MicroSync Digital - the Smallest, Smartest Wireless Strobe Sync System.

 

Guy,

 

In your next conversation with Solms, I wonder if you could ask them why they don't get Metz to make them a dedicated version of the MZ 58, 54 or 44 for the M8 to be sold as a Leica branded product. After all, Metz make the SF-24D for Leica already, so they know the control protocols for the GNC. Although the SF-24D is just about acceptable with a SFILL diffuser, I hugely prefer bounce, especially with secondary fill flash. We know and I hope Leica does that the SCA3502M5 is NOT the answer and Metz have already told me they will not be upgrading it to give EV control on GNC.

 

Wilson

[Jamie Roberts]

In keeping with the rules (ahem ) here are a couple of recent flash shots from the M8 / 580...

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/34710-father-daughter-dance-group-dance.html#post363152

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yeah, those are sweet. Already have PWs out the wazoo, and in, fact, those Microsynch guys won't let you fire a local flash as well as remote, right? That's ultimately what I want to do, so I think only the PWs let you do that?

 

Hey Guy, on the Stofen bounce thing too, maybe I misunderstood--I'm saying that 20ft isn't too high for a direct bounce with a powerful flash (like the 580 or the Metz 54), and I understand you saying it is...but are you then implying you use the Stofen direct to the subject or do you use it to broaden the bounce?

 

LOL!! Just trying to figure this out, is all FWIW, when I tried the Stofens out they just didn't do much for me.

 

I aim them up so they bounce like a barebulb deal. Than if i need to cheat i can lower to more direct for more light. Who needs a aperture ring. Seriously i do this to adjust exposure, I can vary about a stop and half depending on the angle of the flash . I tried that gary fong thing and it worked just was ugly as hell, looked like it came off a Walmart display . He has a new one now but not sure how effective it is.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Guy,

 

In your next conversation with Solms, I wonder if you could ask them why they don't get Metz to make them a dedicated version of the MZ 58, 54 or 44 for the M8 to be sold as a Leica branded product. After all, Metz make the SF-24D for Leica already, so they know the control protocols for the GNC. Although the SF-24D is just about acceptable with a SFILL diffuser, I hugely prefer bounce, especially with secondary fill flash. We know and I hope Leica does that the SCA3502M5 is NOT the answer and Metz have already told me they will not be upgrading it to give EV control on GNC.

 

Wilson

 

Well it certainly is a great idea no question. I did say something at one time but maybe i can ram it home again. I think it is really more a Metz call if they want to make something specially designed for Leica . I would say bigger than the 24 with bounce and uses 4 AA batteries but not bigger than the M8 would be pretty good. the other problem i have with flash is being a left eyed shooter my head hits the flash when I am focusing

[Jamie Roberts]

I aim them up so they bounce like a barebulb deal. Than if i need to cheat i can lower to more direct for more light. Who needs a aperture ring. Seriously i do this to adjust exposure, I can vary about a stop and half depending on the angle of the flash . I tried that gary fong thing and it worked just was ugly as hell, looked like it came off a Walmart display . He has a new one now but not sure how effective it is.

 

Ah--gotcha!

 

Yeah, Gary Fong has a new thing called the whale tail (seriously). It's even uglier than the original "fong dong"--it kinda looks like a well, see for yourself. What do you think that looks like?

 

I don't care if it was custom made by Profoto; I'm not putting that on my camera

 

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[wlaidlaw]

Well it certainly is a great idea no question. I did say something at one time but maybe i can ram it home again. I think it is really more a Metz call if they want to make something specially designed for Leica . I would say bigger than the 24 with bounce and uses 4 AA batteries but not bigger than the M8 would be pretty good. the other problem i have with flash is being a left eyed shooter my head hits the flash when I am focusing

 

Guy,

 

Perhaps an updated version of the 40MZ 1/2/3 might balance better on the M8. As a left-eyed shooter too, I know exactly what you mean. I have been using my MZ40-2 on the M8 in A mode with a basic foot, which is a bit of a pain setting up the aperture, ISO and focal length for the head zoom on the rear screen but apart from that, if you can be bothered, it produces much better results than the SF-24D. Only pic I could find was of a 40-1 with a red filter over the secondary flash.

 

Wilson

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[mwilliamsphotography]

Wow, the 24D has taken a beating here. May I offer a counter opinion?

 

I've used the FS-20 and now the 24D for "professional" photography all along ... mostly with Lutz's broad curved S-Fill diffuser made specifically for that flash.

 

But my shooting technique at weddings is to use as little flash as possible, and strive as much as possible to use the M for what it was intended ... available light photography. The 24D adds just enough fill to get the more difficult shots.

 

I tried using a huge Frankenmetz 54 as well as a SF on a flip bracket with a Nikon short off-camera cord ... for me it seemed to be everything a Leica M isn't.

 

In portrait mode, I simply orient the 24D flash on the opposite side of the prevailing light source as fill. 90% of my low ambient indoor reception work with an M has been using this simple technique.

 

Batteries aren't an issue. They last forever when not used to light up an entire room, and I use 2 sets of Li-ion rechargeables, so the cost is negligible.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Marc i use that diffuser from Leica goodies and it is okay but I just can't warm up to that flash but do use it on occasion sometimes. Yes i hate the Metz 54 also, monster. lately been using a Nikon SB 28 DX which is a little smaller and does a nice job on A mode. I agree flash is unfortunetly not the M style but a man has to do what a man has to do sometimes. hate using it but we need to bring home the goods though. i just try to make it look less like a flash shot with dragging the shutter a lot for the ambient. for me most of my event stuff is big halls or outside. Weddings are better to do since most halls are smaller and you don't have to kick the light around too far, generally speaking. Half these corporate gigs are in halls so big you can hit golf balls in them. Just not a lot of intimacy to them .

[Jamie Roberts]

Wow, the 24D has taken a beating here. May I offer a counter opinion?

 

I've used the FS-20 and now the 24D for "professional" photography all along ... mostly with Lutz's broad curved S-Fill diffuser made specifically for that flash.

 

{snipped}.

 

Hey Marc, I understand what you're saying and mostly shoot the same way in that I try to use the M8 for available light photography where possible, but sometimes (usually at the end of the night when I'm tired too) it's not possible for me.

 

I also am not against using a very small amount of flash to work with the ambient.

 

The Leica flashes, in my book, have one stunning deficiency in this: they don't bounce. If they had a bounce head--even a small one--I'd be all over that in a second.

 

Admittedly, off camera that hardly matters. But on the camera, I like to use whatever large areas I have nearby to feather and diffuse the light appropriately.

 

IOW, if I'm going to have to use flash almost the last thing I want is to use direct flash if I can avoid it

 

[my particular bonus in using the Canon flashes is that I usually have a couple of Canon bodies along with the couple of Leica bodies ).

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Ah--gotcha!

 

Yeah, Gary Fong has a new thing called the whale tail (seriously). It's even uglier than the original "fong dong"--it kinda looks like a well, see for yourself. What do you think that looks like?

 

I don't care if it was custom made by Profoto; I'm not putting that on my camera

 

[ATTACH]55216[/ATTACH]

 

Looks like Toilet bowl with bad plumbing. Wonder when he thought up that design. LOL

[dseelig]

HI Everyone

I just tried the 580 ex 11 and my god it is great thanks David

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[sean_reid]

I generally don't use flash much as fill. I do a lot of my work by existing light but when I use flash it's very often as a primary source of light (people dancing at night is a common example). Since I often diffuse it by bouncing it off various sources, more power gives me more lighting flexibility. I'm glad that the SF 24 is useful to others, however.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean