M3 vs M6 and framelines required

[gettons]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello there,

I am looking at both M3 and M6 (0.72x) for a potential purchase. My preferred focal length is 50mm and I do not worry too much about a light meter (either guessing or with an external one will do the job for me). As it stands an m3 would be the preferred choice, however I do sometimes shoot 28mm too, which I why I thought about an m6. I would not bother using an external viewfinder on my m3 for when I want to shoot wider than 50mm, and the idea of zone focusing does not bother me since I do street for the vast majority of my work.

 

What I would need from you guys is your opinion on how difficult, practically, will be to use zone focusing for all 28mm shots on an m3. I do sometimes like to shoot open wide, for which I am a little worried about being able to guess the distance.

On the other hand an m6 would allow me both framelines and coupled rangefinder, but at the price of losing the beautiful 50mm framelines of the m3.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by gettons

[Maarten]

You can focus an 28 mm M-lens on an M3 just the way you would focus a 50mm lens.

So when you are happy to shoot with 28mm and guesstimating your frame lines, there are no issues at all!

[gettons]

Really, I had no idea the rangefinder coupling would work exactly the same with a 28mm lens on an m3. So I guess I can still use the external viewfinder for a more accurate framing, and still taking advantage of the rangefinder focusing patch?

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by gettons

[250swb]

You can do zone or guesstimate focusing no problem with a 28mm lens and an M3, it doesn't need to interact with the cameras rangefinder, but how do you have any control over what your are framing? What you'll find is that you'll guess what is going to be in the middle of the frame and everything else will depend on luck. So you could use a 28mm viewfinder with your M3 and guess the focus or use zone focusing, or use an M6 and concentrate on the image and not the absurd performance of using 28mm on an M3 the way you plan it.

Edited October 26, 2020 by 250swb

[Jeff S]

Jeff

[gettons]

yeah, I do have a Leica 28mm SLOOZ external viewfinder on my m3. I was only concerned about zone focusing for those cases where you want to shoot wide open (and nailing the focus becomes fairly important due to the reduced depth of field). But I will give the rangefinder focusing with 28mm a try (as I would do with a 50mm) and recompose, as per Maarten' s suggestion.

Edited October 26, 2020 by gettons

[105012]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If 50mm is ones preferred focal length and 28mm only an occasional choice, then my choice would be the M3. A 28mm viewfinder is small and can sit in a pocket (or bag if you carry one) with the 28mm lens for that rare use, and most of the time you will have the enjoyment of the M3, unparalleled in Leica-land for 50mm.

[250swb]

How much are you spending on a camera that is only 'unparalleled' with a 50mm lens? Forget the one trick pony and the newbie research you've done, use a camera that gets the images done. I know people buy Leica's for the theatrical flourish of saying they've got a Leica M3, but in reality it isn't the best camera Leica ever made, no seriously, it isn't.

[gettons]

16 minutes ago, 250swb said:

How much are you spending on a camera that is only 'unparalleled' with a 50mm lens? Forget the one trick pony and the newbie research you've done, use a camera that gets the images done. I know people buy Leica's for the theatrical flourish of saying they've got a Leica M3, but in reality it isn't the best camera Leica ever made, no seriously, it isn't.

I think it’s not even a matter of “best camera”, Esther the camera that gets you outside and makes you enjoy shooting. Which in my case both m3 and m6 are. My concern was more with regards of focusing when using 28mm which does not seem to be a problem. And nope, I do not mind using an external viewfinder. So I may just stick with the m3 then. 

[earleygallery]

There are a number of 'badges of honour' amongst Leica users that one should earn and wear with pride. In no particular order they are;

No filters, ever. Thou shall not degrade the image quality of Leica glass.

No meter, ever. Ignore any built in meter. Ignore 'sunny 16'. You must just learn to 'know' the exposure or at least claim that the resulting image is as you inteneded it to be.

Fit a Leicameter to your M. It's all about style. Don't worry that it may not be accurate. See above.

No cropping, ever. To crop is to admit defeat and that you cannot compose in the wild.

Ignore viewfinders and frame lines. You must be able to just 'see'. As a master of photography your brain is your viewfinder and your frameline.

Ignore the rangefinder, it's for pretenders. Real Leica photographers can focus by feel, a slight twist of the focus ring this way or that should be instinctive, and faster than the silly rangefinder. That's for the newbies only. Depth of field scales should be hard wired into your brain. Fine focus is acheived by leaning in or out from the subject.

Always shoot wide open. Leica lenses are not designed to be used any other way. Never be tempted to touch that aperture ring. If exposure is a problem don't worry, see above.

etc.

[Tom1234]

Play with this for some numbers:

https://www.photopills.com/calculators/dof

[logan2z]

43 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

There are a number of 'badges of honour' amongst Leica users that one should earn and wear with pride. In no particular order they are;

No filters, ever. Thou shall not degrade the image quality of Leica glass.

No meter, ever. Ignore any built in meter. Ignore 'sunny 16'. You must just learn to 'know' the exposure or at least claim that the resulting image is as you inteneded it to be.

Fit a Leicameter to your M. It's all about style. Don't worry that it may not be accurate. See above.

No cropping, ever. To crop is to admit defeat and that you cannot compose in the wild.

Ignore viewfinders and frame lines. You must be able to just 'see'. As a master of photography your brain is your viewfinder and your frameline.

Ignore the rangefinder, it's for pretenders. Real Leica photographers can focus by feel, a slight twist of the focus ring this way or that should be instinctive, and faster than the silly rangefinder. That's for the newbies only. Depth of field scales should be hard wired into your brain. Fine focus is acheived by leaning in or out from the subject.

Always shoot wide open. Leica lenses are not designed to be used any other way. Never be tempted to touch that aperture ring. If exposure is a problem don't worry, see above.

etc.

Apparently I've flunked out of Leica U.  

[Matlock]

6 hours ago, earleygallery said:

There are a number of 'badges of honour' amongst Leica users that one should earn and wear with pride. In no particular order they are;

Fit a Leicameter to your M. It's all about style. Don't worry that it may not be accurate. See above.

 

Don't forget to scratch the chrome top plate to pieces when fitting the Leicameter, that is essential to demonstrate your 'badge of honour' .

[adan]

Realistically, if you are using only 28 and 50 - and have no desire for a 75 at some point, then (of the choices you mention) the M3 would be the ticket.

I find Leica's built-in 28mm lines to be god-awful, suitable only for chameleons - I use a separate 28mm finder in the accessory shoe with any Leica M.

I personally would get an M4 for the rewind crank - but that's not on the list.

 

[Matlock]

10 hours ago, 250swb said:

 I know people buy Leica's for the theatrical flourish of saying they've got a Leica M3, but in reality it isn't the best camera Leica ever made, no seriously, it isn't.

Sadly the M3 has achieved 'cult status' and it seems that every post you read seems to imply that you are not a real photographer unless you use a Leica M3. I own one and it is a great camera, but it is 'of it's time'. There are many, many better options in the Leica M range. Whilst not relevant to the question asked, I use my IIId far more than my M3.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Matlock

[Mute-on]

The thing with film Leica M bodies is that they are all satisfying to use in their own way.

However, choosing a Leica M is not an intellectual exercise. You have to hold it, feel the film advance, load a roll of film, attach a lens and actually focus it using the viewfinder. Ideally, shoot a roll of film and be honest with yourself about the experience.

If you unequivocally like it, then buy it. If you are trying to convince yourself it’s for you, don’t buy it.  Try another one. 

Soon you will have three bodies, and a lens for each, but for now, just focus on the first one ....

Good luck!

Edited October 27, 2020 by Mute-on

[Aryel]

Hello,

Zone focusing is the same regardless of m3 or m6 (or any camera).

Try both and see which one you like most! 

[ktmrider2]

Absolutely nothing wrong with a 28 on an M3 with an aux finder.  Honestly the 28 frame lines seem almost an afterthought on the Leica's that have them.  The 28 FOV is basically the whole field of view of the .72 magnification viewfinder.  You can use the whole finder pretty well to shoot a 28 on an M2, M4, M5 and M4/2.  However, an aux finder for the 28 FOV makes things so much easier.  

Now I do not presently have a 28 but an aux finder is required for either 24 or 21 or something wider.  Let the 28 finder live in the accessory shoe of the M3 and you are covered for 28, 50, 90 and 135(or pick up a 28/35 aux finder) so everything is covered.   Handling and ergonomics are more similar between M bodies than different.  It is a lot cheaper to pick up an aux finder then another body assuming you do not want another film M.

I faced a similar problem recently and almost bought another M but actually ended up with a 3f with the first version of the 50 Summicron.  I had never owned a LTM and am having a blast.  It is a conversation starter, even better than my M2.  And since the finder on the 3f is small, squinty and 50 only I purchased an aux finder for the 50 and it makes life much easier.  I may pick up a Voigtlander 15 with finder for the 3f, so again another aux viewfinder.

[Pyrogallol]

I’ve got a 15mm Voigtlander and found that you don’t really need a finder, just point it at the main subject and it picks up everything your eyes are seeing.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[romualdo]

On 11/13/2020 at 5:29 PM, Pyrogallol said:

I’ve got a 15mm Voigtlander and found that you don’t really need a finder, just point it at the main subject and it picks up everything your eyes are seeing.

what about a 10?

any rule of thumb for that? (birds eye view)

Edited November 14, 2020 by romualdo