SL2-S

[Simone_DF]

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13 hours ago, SJH said:

Pretty positive review here and I'm definitely warming to the SL2-S now and might well order one, the issue it sort of raises is the the SL2 at the limit of what they can do with he processor, 47mb and the AF performance? He appears pretty positive about the SL2-S AF performance and was pretty realistic about the SL2 when it came out. He also like the colours/IQ as well as the video output. Definitely growing on me....

 

It's unlikely that the SL2 processor is already at its limits. It should be on par with the Panasonic and what we see in the S1R line. 

Also don't forget that the 47mp Q2 is powered by a previous generation of the SL2 processor, the Maestro II, and it works well with the 47mp of that camera (a bit less well with AF...)

From what I read about the Panasonic update, much of the upcoming AF improvements has to do with algorhitm optimizations rather than pure horsepower requirements.

[Alistairm]

Here are shots at ISO 25000 and ISO 50000. These are DNG straght out of the camera. I only had the camera to wander around a shopping centre with, and Sydney's Queen Victoria Building is extremely well lit, so the stairwell was about the only place I could find that was remotely dark. 

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[Alistairm]

And here is ISO 25000, again DNG staight out of camera. 

While I doubt anyone is going to shoot at these ISO levels, and suspect that pulling shadow at this ISO would be a disaster, the SL2-S is amazingly competent in terms of still producing excellent colour and noise that is not unpleasant, even at extreme ISO levels. I'm impressed. 

 

 

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[Radost]

8 hours ago, Alistairm said:

And here is ISO 25000, again DNG staight out of camera. 

While I doubt anyone is going to shoot at these ISO levels, and suspect that pulling shadow at this ISO would be a disaster, the SL2-S is amazingly competent in terms of still producing excellent colour and noise that is not unpleasant, even at extreme ISO levels. I'm impressed. 

 

 

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Can you share the DNG of this picture?

[Radost]

On 12/22/2020 at 1:32 AM, Slender said:

I am surprised you say the SL2s footage is less sharp than the sony... All sample I saw on the sony were softer than say, anything fron EOS or else than use oversampling or binning from a larger pixel count sensor. vs 1:1 from Sony... Have you seen the footage of the Parrots from the RedDot presentation ? it is so crips I have a hard time imagining Sony can do better. It is even too sharp for subject other than nature/landscape.... wouldn't miss on make up if I was in front lol 😇

I see a lot of moiré on the Parrots. I hope the original file does not look that bad

[Radost]

On 12/22/2020 at 2:20 AM, Steven said:

Yes. 

Can you share an original prores file?

[Mr.Prime]

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does this new camera have the same sensor as the M10? I’m beginning to suspect not and hence we might be seeing a harbinger of the M11 here

[Radost]

On 12/22/2020 at 12:39 AM, Steven said:

Tough question to answer. My answer at this moment is that if you like AF, get the sony. If you only Manual focus, I prefer the SL2-s. 

Focus peaking (FP) is better in the EVF of the Leica because it is more precise and more enjoyable to look through, but sony has a small advantage for FP on the screen depending on you use, because it has a tilt screen that lets you shoot with FP at waist height for example. If you don't care for that, both the EVF and screen are far superior on the SL2S, and the FP is really precise. I have only tested it with M lenses but I suppose its the same with all. And although I cannot give you an opinion on the performance of your unknown lenses with each body, I suppose they will always be superior on the SL2S. 

Regarding the video mode, it's really a matter of taste and preference. They are both excellent. 

I am sure that if you go into technical review of rolling shutter and DR performance, the Sony should always come out on top. It's a dedicated video camera and it is one of the most excellent ive ever tried. Theres nothing not to love about it (except the colours and the plastic feel of the hardware). I really cant tell you which one will be better for you, but if that helps, to me it comes down to the following: 

- The Sony is a more complete video camera that with a million settings to tweak produces a near perfect image. Tack sharp with any lens, even some old vintage soft lenses. But as always with sony it takes a lot of work to get to your final image, when you manage to get there which is not always in my case. 

- The Leica produces a very professional image, beyond my expectations for a Leica, and while its not as sharp or customisable as the Sony, the out of camera colours are, in my opinion, a thousand times better. Even if the image is a little softer, it has more natural look than the very digital sony image on which every YouTube filmmaker ends up putting a diffusing filter (black pro most or other brand) to reduce the sharpness. The 400 bitrate vs the 260 bitrate of the sony also seems to make a huge difference in post. The colours are much more malleable, and with a couple sliders you get to where you want. While for outdoor shooting under a good light, both camera will excel, where the Leica has a real advantage to me is for indoor, non professionally lit shots. The AWB is right, and the colours look natural. The sony, on the other hand, is a total nightmare, unless you like washed out green or orange footage. 

Do you prefer technical performance, or beautiful colours all the time? 

Myself, it's an easy choice. Coulours any day of the year. BUT, I also like AF 😭😂

Leica shoots prores in camera. Beats the sony A7sIII XAVC BS codec.

Main reason for me considering it.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Radost

[LocalHero1953]

Not every video user here is a pro feature film camera operator; like still photography, there is a wide gamut of user needs for video, depending on genre, skill/talent level etc. I suspect what I interpret as @Steven's use scenario is what Leica might be aiming at - definitely not for feature films or mainstream video shot with pro teams, but for secondary or casual use, shot solo by someone who knows what they are doing. This more or less matches what I also see as the central target market for Leica still cameras - advanced amateur, not pro, or pros on their days off. (Of course pros can and do use them - but that does not make them the main target market).

I'm definitely at the bottom and amateur end of the skill/talent spectrum in video, but with aspirations to higher things, particularly for amateur drama/music and perhaps documentary shorts. I have the Sigma fp which has one feature I seriously wish the Leica SL2-S had, direct USB output to recording on SSD (e.g. Samsung T5), but otherwise the SL2-S will be a useful companion now that the 30 minute recording limit has been lifted.

I'm just exploring how the SL2-S behaves for video. Last night I found I could record well over an hour (static on a tripod) with a battery that was a bit off full charge (a new battery at that, so not yet at full capacity). It was noticeable that the body got warm after about half an hour, but with no increase in temperature thereafter. It was warm all over with no particular hotspots; it looks like Leica has got heat management for video sorted. I once tried a TL2 for video and it shut down after 25 minutes, quite hot around the battery compartment. The Sigma fp has a very obvious external heat sink for the same reason.

Edited December 24, 2020 by LocalHero1953

[Alistairm]

5 hours ago, Radost said:

Can you share the DNG of this picture?

Here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pfunyks8bnbyj9j/AAAbIhoXIezuGE80As2eitHNa?dl=0 

[frame-it]

not bad for an A7sII & lovely colors

 

and

 

https://nofilmschool.com/s1h-now-first-netflix-approved-mirrorless-camera

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by frame-it

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

They can, but they won't.

Misunderstanding - I meant that pros can and do use Leica cameras for still photography. I wouldn't know about video pros - I don't doubt you're right. 

[oka]

8 hours ago, Mr.Prime said:

does this new camera have the same sensor as the M10? I’m beginning to suspect not and hence we might be seeing a harbinger of the M11 here

Leica might play time with the R.

I think they should introduce some other advancement on the body than just a sensor to call it M11.

I don’t think we see M10-S as R is quite a leap forward sensor wise from the M10/P.

Edited December 24, 2020 by oka

[lx1713]

While the SL2-S isn't likely a professional cinematographic teams' first choice or even the 3rd choice. The fact that Leica built it means that foot is likely to be in the doorway. An invitation to filmmakers' inputs. Leitz-Cine exists for a reason. A better and more profitable Cine SL is likely Leica's aim. It has to be compelling right? To persuade film-makers to switch?

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Edited December 24, 2020 by lx1713

[lx1713]

Anyway, what's to prevent Leica from building a much better camera for Cine/video than an SL2-S or an Arri much less a Sony or a Canon?

[lx1713]

https://www.leitz-cine.com/henrifront/

Don't look at the prices 😅

Edited December 24, 2020 by lx1713

[lx1713]

We all tend to forget what else Leica also does. It isn't merely collector's toys and over priced cameras. A Henri is a pro tool for the SL2-S. Converts that SL2-S into a Directors Viewfinder.

Leica doesn't have small ambitions at all. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by lx1713

[lx1713]

7 minutes ago, Steven said:

I like it as a simple camera holder, Steve McCurry style. 
I don’t understand it a directors viewfinder. Do they mean that it’s an EVF viewfinder solution for scouting or picking lens and composition? Sounds a little cumbersome and over the top. Unless I don’t understand what they mean. 

I don't understand how a director would use this. I will let others guide us here.

From what I understand, this is more economical than the usual solution and more flexible in use (as I don't know, I will not guess : )

What I do know is Leica is using their lens lines and converging many use cases so that a pro is not limited nor need to jump systems when they inevitably shift with their markets or straddle multiple markets. Nothing is actually more costly than time lost in changing systems or unprofessionalism that comes with unfamiliarity with your camera and lenses. It isn't to be a collector's item for the museums.

[lx1713]

23 minutes ago, Steven said:

I like it as a simple camera holder, Steve McCurry style. 
I don’t understand it a directors viewfinder. Do they mean that it’s an EVF viewfinder solution for scouting or picking lens and composition? Sounds a little cumbersome and over the top. Unless I don’t understand what they mean. 

My best guess is that it allows the Director to scout and determine the setup points and positions for the camera crew. The setup time and complexities is usually considerable, laying tracks for dollies, scrims, lights, etc So whatever saves time saves money. The SL2-S can pre capture the director's vision or ideas but whatever or however it is being used, the Henri is an indication of Leica's more serious ambitions.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Big John]

I wonder, if Leica was releasing the SL2 series of cameras today/at the same time, would they be called the SL2-R and the SL2-S?

I think so - as the newer model is not (as some manufacturers do) a cheaper, lower spec version of the ‘flagship’ model.