Focusing M glass @ f8 on SL?

[tedd]

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Hi guys,

I've been an M shooter for a few years now (mostly film but also more recently an M240) and decided I'd like to add an SL + M adapter to my gear shelf now that they're a lot more affordable used. I read something today that suggested focus was very difficult with adapted glass if the lens isn't set wide open - I was hoping to get some different takes on this? I mostly shoot around f8 and the idea of having to open up the lens to focus and then stop down to shoot sounds a bit annoying, especially for the more 'run and gun' style I usually employ.

Reassurance appreciated!

Thanks.

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[Photoworks]

Leica lens designer would say "why are you stopping down?" if you don't need it for depth of field, you should shoot open.

Opening and closing on SL2 gets old pretty quickly. I find M lenses easy to focus up to 2.8 but most time I like to shoot at 1.4

You can try to use Focus assist in red or any color you want. even that is not the best solution, it is hard to see expressions on portraits.

The last option should be to zone focus, work better for wide angles lenses where at F8 most of is in focus.

I would suggest trying to shoot at open f-stops

[lct]

No experience with the SL but i mostly focus my M lenses at actual aperture to avoid focus shift. No problem at f/8 generally but i need focus magnification to nail focus. Below with LTM (Tessar 35) and M (Tri-Elmar 28-50) lenses at f/11 and f/8 on the digital CL. Should be as easy or easier on the SL i guess but again i have no experience with it sorry.  

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qcxMQzZ/0/c46961f0/X5/i-qcxMQzZ-X5.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Diverse/n-QFBj4/Leica-digital-CL-Leica-28-35-504-v1/i-bFTzX8v/0/49153b89/X5/C1080269_si-X5.jpg

[Tailwagger]

4 hours ago, tedd said:

Hi guys,

 I read something today that suggested focus was very difficult with adapted glass if the lens isn't set wide open - I was hoping to get some different takes on this? I mostly shoot around f8...

It certainly can be. A lot depends on which lens you're talking about.  This, BTW, is not an SL issue, the same is true for the M when using the EVF.  On the M, I almost never focus via the EVF,  only frame with it. The problem tends to be more pronounced the wider you go.  With a 21 SEM, for example, at f8, pretty much everything though the EVF will appear in focus, however if you not careful, you can wind up with softer subjects than you might like.  For longer lenses, 75+, the issue is far less pronounced as even at f8, DoF is still be fairly shallow when close focusing and the magnification level is far higher as well. In the middle, YMMV. depending on subject distance.

If essentially, you were zone focusing with your M anyway, the SL operationally wont be any different.  The best thing to do for wides is estimate the subject distance, set the lens and then forget about focusing altogether.

[helged]

30 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

It certainly can be. A lot depends on which lens you're talking about.  This, BTW, is not an SL issue, the same is true for the M when using the EVF.  On the M, I almost never focus via the EVF,  only frame with it. The problem tends to be more pronounced the wider you go.  With a 21 SEM, for example, at f8, pretty much everything though the EVF will appear in focus, however if you not careful, you can wind up with softer subjects than you might like.  For longer lenses, 75+, the issue is far less pronounced as even at f8, DoF is still be fairly shallow when close focusing and the magnification level is far higher as well. In the middle, YMMV. depending on subject distance.

If essentially, you were zone focusing with your M anyway, the SL operationally wont be any different.  The best thing to do for wides is estimate the subject distance, set the lens and then forget about focusing altogether.

+1. Focus the 21SEM with EVF isnt, in general, easy/accurate; at 50mm focal lengths, focus by EVF works mostly fine. Despite this, M-lenses on SL/SL2/S1R work fine and some, like 50Noct, 75Lux and 90Cron, are better suited on the SL then M (in my view). 

[caissa]

Simply rent a SL and try it yourself. You will soon see that nobody actually uses this method (opening for precise focus, then close down again). It is simply not necessary.

It is a pleasure to use (manual) adapted lenses with the SL or SL2. The EVF gives a very nice preview and shows clearly objects in and out of focus.

[lct]

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2 hours ago, helged said:

Focus the 21SEM with EVF isnt, in general, easy/accurate

Easy and fast on the CL. Here focused at f/11.
Don't tell me the SL is an inferior camera .
Easy with my full frame A7s mod too.
Better use both focus magnification and focus peaking with UWA lenses though.
(Digital CL, 21/3.4 asph, f/11)

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[darylgo]

I haven't used the SL for several months but the practical advice of zone focusing works well.  In theory there is only one plane of focus and everything else is perceptually in focus or not.  Many times on the SL I would need to open a lens wide for precise focus and stop down to shooting aperture.   This is similar to the use of non-automatic diaphragm lenses in the early slr days.  While M lenses can easily be used on the SL, adapting lenses almost always has drawbacks.  Leica M lenses have precisely marked focusing scales when used on the M camera.  The Leica made M adapter L is made a bit short and the lens will focus to infinity prior to the infinity stop.  All scale markings for feet and meters are also skewed and can not be used for scale focusing.    

I am surprised at how inexpensive the SL is currently, it is an imaging monster with Leica build quality, if I didn't own one I would purchase it used.  

[tedd]

14 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Leica lens designer would say "why are you stopping down?" if you don't need it for depth of field, you should shoot open.

Opening and closing on SL2 gets old pretty quickly. I find M lenses easy to focus up to 2.8 but most time I like to shoot at 1.4

You can try to use Focus assist in red or any color you want. even that is not the best solution, it is hard to see expressions on portraits.

The last option should be to zone focus, work better for wide angles lenses where at F8 most of is in focus.

I would suggest trying to shoot at open f-stops

As a photographer I would argue that you shouldn't open up unless you need to isolate your subject from a distracting background or suck in more light. While I love and appreciate the work of Leica designers, Leo Fender wasn't much of a guitar player!

My main use for this camera is as a second body when shooting weddings - with a 50mm on my M (my preferred focal length) and swapping between 28mm and 90mm on the SL. I guess I will just have to learn to work with it or swap it out for another M.

Thanks for all the replies, it's good to know what I'm in for and hopefully the camera will arrive this week!

 

[Jk1002]

I think the open and close method is applicable in dark environments when you use a flash. Other than that no need. There may have been reviews that did not make this 100% clear when they discussed this topic.

Cheers

JK

 

 

 

[SrMi]

33 minutes ago, Jk1002 said:

I think the open and close method is applicable in dark environments when you use a flash. Other than that no need. There may have been reviews that did not make this 100% clear when they discussed this topic.

Cheers

JK

The idea behind focusing wide open, is to focus with the most shallow DOF, thus being more precise than when DOF is much larger. When I have time, I do focus wide open before closing aperture to the desired value.

[helged]

12 hours ago, lct said:

Easy and fast on the CL. Here focused at f/11.
Don't tell me the SL is an inferior camera .
Easy with my full frame A7s mod too.
Better use both focus magnification and focus peaking with UWA lenses though.
(Digital CL, 21/3.4 asph, f/11)

 

Having used both bodies, I can confirm that the SLs EVF is much better than that of the CL 😉... SEM21 at f11 gives almost everything in focus, f5.6 may require some focus adjustment. Pendling on the contrast of the scene, this may or may not be easy; I have missed the focus a few times on the SL (at least until I realised the problem compared to using the SEM21 on the M). 

[jaapv]

21 hours ago, tedd said:

Hi guys,

I've been an M shooter for a few years now (mostly film but also more recently an M240) and decided I'd like to add an SL + M adapter to my gear shelf now that they're a lot more affordable used. I read something today that suggested focus was very difficult with adapted glass if the lens isn't set wide open - I was hoping to get some different takes on this? I mostly shoot around f8 and the idea of having to open up the lens to focus and then stop down to shoot sounds a bit annoying, especially for the more 'run and gun' style I usually employ.

Reassurance appreciated!

Thanks.

Never had any problem using the Summilux24 or SEM18 on the CL. If needed focus magnification works well. If you use focus peaking at smaller apertures it may require proper technique to get critical focus: "walk" the focal plane through the image to put maximum peaking where you need it with as much shimmering before as behind your subject. The SL(2) should make this even easier.
However I find it hard to imagine a photograph where one would stop down a wideangle lens to increase DOF yet need critical focus one narrow focal plane ???. 

I wonder what the clearly incorrect "something" was that you read - the Internet is not the most reliable source of information at times...

[lct]

2 hours ago, helged said:

Having used both bodies, I can confirm that the SLs EVF is much better than that of the CL 😉... SEM21 at f11 gives almost everything in focus,

It is much worse then . Just kidding. Take a look at my pic above. The three leaves of the crop were easy to focus on. I would be surprised if the SL cannot do the same. You may wish to try focus magnification together with focus peaking if needed.

[Ken Abrahams]

The Summicron M 35 ASPH on the SL will show focus shift if you firstly focused open at f2 and then stopped down to say 5,.6/8.0. You can test each lens out with focus peaking by first focusing fully open and then stopping down. I don't get any movement of red focus peaking away from subject on my 50 M APO or 21 SEM nor the 90 M APO when viewing point of focus (subject) through EVF while also stopping down. I have changed my focusing behaviour however after poor, out of focus results using the "focus wide open" first method. Now, I will focus at the chosen f stop and do the best I can with the focus peaking.    

[SonomaBear]

I'm old fashioned and love my traditional M lenses.  I also love my Q (mostly auto focus).

Almost always shooting wide open or just 1or 2 stops down -- focus on my SL is perfect, especially with zoom to focus point.

Rarely do I need more depth than open +2 -- and then zone focus never fails me.  Your mileage may vary.