Got my m10-R today. Sending it back tomorrow

[Matlock]

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1 hour ago, jaapv said:

In that case you are not using the mask properly. Adapt the metal strip to your nose and breathe “downwards”. 

It was meant as a joke, hence the emoji.  

[rivi1969]

6 hours ago, jaapv said:

Complete nonsense. Leica has had the factory in Portugal for decades. The stuff made there, mainly binoculars and sub-assemblies but also some cameras, mostly in the past like the R3, but presently none, is made there for the expertise of the workforce. Portugal? You make it sound like some cheap labour third world country - in fact it is part of the EU which means that cost of labour is comparable, if somewhat differentiated from any other EU country like for instance Italy. Woops - they build "cheap labour" Alfa Romeos there...🙄

I am not making sound Portugal like a cheap 3rd world country, I am not the one making things there and claiming are made somewhere else.

Many Mercedes Benz and Audis are made in Mexico and do you think they say those cars are actually made in Germany? Of course not. That’s the whole point.

But since obviously this is a dead end I am off. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by rivi1969

[jaapv]

“Made in xxxx” is not a manufacturer’s whim. It is strictly regulated. 

[Matlock]

23 hours ago, rivi1969 said:

If you see the PDF of the Leica tour, many lenses, including the 50mm Summicron are 100% made and finished there. SO is the SL body and some of the Ms. For some reason is like a "secret" no one should talk about. 

http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/80FDTimes-LEICA-PortugalFactoryTour.pdf

You seem to have missed this statement in the report of the tour. "Today, the porfolio has expanded to the point where many Leica cameras and lenses are also built here and then shipped to Wetzlar for final assembly and QC". However, as you say, it is probably time to move on.

[dkmoore]

4 minutes ago, Matlock said:

You seem to have missed this statement in the report of the tour. "Today, the porfolio has expanded to the point where many Leica cameras and lenses are also built here and then shipped to Wetzlar for final assembly and QC". However, as you say, it is probably time to move on.

They should just do QC in Portugal and ship to one less location. Would probably improve QC in fact and save Leica some cash money shipping the cameras again. 

[jaapv]

And final assembly?

[Matlock]

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36 minutes ago, jaapv said:

And final assembly?

That is what Leica have always maintained.

[Mikep996]

Interesting!  If the Germany/EU had USA rules, a Leica M could not be labeled "Made in Germany" because major parts are made in another country.   It COULD be labeled "Made in Germany with Foreign parts (or words to that effect).  So clearly there are differences in the world regarding how "made in..." can be applied.

[jaapv]

That would go for any product in the world nowadays. Even Dutch Cheese will have wrapping made in China.

[jdlaing]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:11 AM, Matlock said:

As I understand from Leica, they are made in Portugal with final assembly and finishing carried out in Germany.

In the US it’s based on percentages. There is no pre approval on a label “Made in the USA”. Only after a claim does the FTC investigate and if the percentages of the product remain domestic the label stays.

[Matlock]

10 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

Interesting!  If the Germany/EU had USA rules, a Leica M could not be labeled "Made in Germany" because major parts are made in another country.   It COULD be labeled "Made in Germany with Foreign parts (or words to that effect).  So clearly there are differences in the world regarding how "made in..." can be applied.

Not quite true. I have in front of me a Cross Peerless pen. Nowhere does it give the country of origin (other than the refill) however the box does have a small sticker which reads BOX MADE IN CHINA. All Cross Peerless pens (and other models) are made in the Cross plant in China.

[mmradman]

On 8/5/2020 at 7:58 PM, farnz said:

Actually, come to think of it, FDS makes an excellent point.  Flaws such as this, particularly if it's an engraving flaw, become sought-after by collectors specifically for the flaw and are often sold at auction for extraordinary amounts of money!

You only have to recall the Inverted Jenny postage stamp with face value of 24 cents whose value now is about $1.5 million as a result of the flaw.  The same stamp without the flaw is worthless.  

So the OP should at least consider keeping his M10-R with the paint flaw as inheritance for his great, great grandchildrens' grandchildren when it might be worth millions. 

Pete.

Perhaps owner of mis engraved camera should offer it for sale here, say 10% percent above retail. Common guys, everybody seems to be happy to give Leica lot of QC slack.

[jaapv]

23 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Not quite true. I have in front of me a Cross Peerless pen. Nowhere does it give the country of origin (other than the refill) however the box does have a small sticker which reads BOX MADE IN CHINA. All Cross Peerless pens (and other models) are made in the Cross plant in China.

My Pelican Souverän pen is engraved "made in Germany" 

[Matlock]

Just now, jaapv said:

My Pelican pen is engraved "made in Germany" 

That is because all Pelikan pens are made in Germany.

[jdlaing]

On and on and on.

Rejecting a camera after an hour or two use is buyers remorse. “I ordered the holy grail of cameras and I got one with a piece of missing paint”. The buyer is entitled to do that but making a fuss here is just venting frustration. If he doesn’t like it let him send it back. QC has nothing to do with cosmetics. QC is to ensure the item is manufactured to the minimum designed standard set by the maker. Only the maker knows what that minimum standard is. QC is mainly for function and safety.

[LocalHero1953]

2 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

On and on and on.

Rejecting a camera after an hour or two use is buyers remorse. “I ordered the holy grail of cameras and I got one with a piece of missing paint”. The buyer is entitled to do that but making a fuss here is just venting frustration. If he doesn’t like it let him send it back. QC has nothing to do with cosmetics. QC is to ensure the item is manufactured to the minimum designed standard set by the maker. Only the maker knows what that minimum standard is. QC is mainly for function and safety.

To be fair to the OP, it has been the 99% of others (including me) who have created this 9-page thread - he didn't do it all on his own😉

[jdlaing]

My Mont Blanc pens don’t say made in Germany even though they are.

[jdlaing]

Just now, LocalHero1953 said:

To be fair to the OP, it has been the 99% of others (including me) who have created this 9-page thread - he didn't do it all on his own😉

I didn’t say anything that was unfair to the OP.

[Mikep996]

A product  (in the USA) doesn't have to be labeled "Made in..." but if it says "Made in USA," per the FTC, none of the pricinple parts can be made outside of the US.  IOW, in the case of a Leica M, something like the Leica red badge, or maybe the strap lugs could be made elsewhere but the body and any "principle parts" of the camera would have to be produced in the US.

As has been noted, the OP did NOT turn this into a 9 page thread!  

Edited August 11, 2020 by Mikep996

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[FDS]

I’m thinking it’s time to put this thread out of its misery.   Most of us have probably realised that the level of polarisation expressed —reflecting some deeply held but opposing values and behaviours—  is unbridgeable.