thedwp Posted August 5, 2020 Share #1 Posted August 5, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was excited when the camera arrived this morning. I ordered from the Leica Store US (NJ). As I was setting it up I noticed it had old firmware which is probably no big deal (10.20.23.49), I’m used to having to update firmware on cameras that have been in stock for a while, but have these been in stock that long?...the other thing I noticed was the image counter was at L1000465, but the main issue was the iso dial. The font is def smaller than the ones on my m10-p...but as I looked closer, part of the 4 in the 6400 is missing. I double checked other images online and it’s def a default. (see image). There were a few other things I noticed not worth mentioning because to be fair I had it in hand barely an hour. Bummed, but it’s going back tomorrow. https://devinpense.smugmug.com/Forum-Shots/i-FXmWs4X and btw- after the few side by side images I saw with my m10-p, I may push pause on getting another R for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 5, 2020 Posted August 5, 2020 Hi thedwp, Take a look here Got my m10-R today. Sending it back tomorrow. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jakontil Posted August 5, 2020 Share #2 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) So besides the iso dial, why are you sending it back again? Edited August 5, 2020 by jakontil 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted August 5, 2020 Share #3 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) Thedwp, I suspect you have a pre-production M10-R. On the plain box there should be a production date. Simply send it back and request a swap out. The M10-R is a superb camera. r/ Mark PS...If you subscribe to Reid Reviews, he does a good comparison between the M10-P and M10-R. If you need or want the resolution for large prints, as I wrote above the M10-R is excellent, if not your M10-P is not outdated nor a slouch when it comes to printing large. Edited August 5, 2020 by LeicaR10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 5, 2020 Share #4 Posted August 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, thedwp said: and btw- after the few side by side images I saw with my m10-p, I may push pause on getting another R for a while. Based on? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsalamena Posted August 5, 2020 Share #5 Posted August 5, 2020 Would be interesting to know if it’s a worth upgrade from the already excellent m10. I don’t really need the extra mp, but would be interested to understand if there is a diffident colour rendering from the “new” sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaR10 Posted August 5, 2020 Share #6 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) Dsalamena, As I wrote in my post #3 above, Reid Reviews does an excellent job comparing the M10 camera models. IMO, it is worth the subscription. The M10-R color is more subtle and renders IMO the best of the M cameras. People perceive color differently as well, so it will get down to personal taste. When I owned the SL2, my clients didn't like the color and rendering from the superb SL lenses. It had nothing to do with color management either, rather how the sensor and lenses rendered. I sold the SL system and went back to the S system to keep my clients happy for making very large, detailed prints and especially the color produced by the S3 sensor. IMO, the M10-R and S3 color are very close in rendering out of the cameras. Then again, my clients are very selective (read picky) and they pay the bills. Hope this helps. r/ Mark Edited August 5, 2020 by LeicaR10 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedwp Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted August 5, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 50 minutes ago, Jeff S said: Based on? Jeff As @LeicaR10 said, it seems likely I received a pre-production model and it seems to make sense especially with 400+ shots out of the box. So I have to say, take my comment about the side by side shots with a grain of salt. More than anything, the m10-p is no slouch and I’ve been using it almost daily for months, so naturally I’m more familiar with the colors. I don’t doubt for a second the R is a good sensor, as someone else mentioned, I would need a month at least to adjust. @LeicaR10 I do subscribe to Reid Reviews and read his m10-p/m10-r review a few times. I also second that it’s worth the subscription, he’s probably the most detailed reviewer out there with no strings attached and no spicy short unboxing videos. I’ll have to sleep on it tonight and see which side of the GAS bed I get up on in the morning to decide if I’m going to send it back or exchange it. Either way, at this price point and expected level of service, this sort of thing shouldn’t happen, maybe from a third-party company but not the home team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted August 5, 2020 Share #8 Posted August 5, 2020 400 shots is normal for a new M. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share #9 Posted August 5, 2020 The way the "4" is rendered in the ISO dial font on my M10-R has not changed from the way it appears on my M10-D and is probably the same as in other M10s. There is nothing missing. My M10-R has a June 24 manufacturing date, and was shipped to me from the side of the airplane in Newark by Leica USA online sales. It arrived with the (slightly) older firmware that all M10-Rs were using one week before the announcement. I installed the latest firmware, downloadable from Leica-camera.com, did a reset (as all were advised to do), and started life with L1000001.dng. But seeing 400 exposures taken during the testing checkout that is logged on the little card in the second drawer of the box is typical. Sean Reid presents some impressive evidence of advances in the rendering of the new chip. Jono Slack is out tramping the Suffolk and Cornwall beaches snapping sea and sky to show that highlight detail and rendering is significantly improved, not just by lowering the base ISO slightly. I think it is a keeper. And no doubt the firmware will continue to evolve, as the funky numbering suggests that they are still working on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 5, 2020 Share #10 Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, thedwp said: As @LeicaR10 said, it seems likely I received a pre-production model and it seems to make sense especially with 400+ shots out of the box. I seriously doubt it's pre-production; can't imagine from the Leica Online Store, which routinely lists product as unavailable when ready units aren't in stock. No different than a brand new car that comes with a few hundred test miles; common for a new Leica. Earlier FW is also common; if you bought from a retail dealer rather than the online store, I'm confident they would have updated it before sending. Reputable dealers like Leica Miami do this. The only issue I see is the ISO dial; understandably irritating. As far as the IQ, etc, only you can judge. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share #11 Posted August 5, 2020 The ISO dial?? You've got to be kidding. Is this the problem? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P8050172 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P8050172 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/312031-got-my-m10-r-today-sending-it-back-tomorrow/?do=findComment&comment=4021699'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 5, 2020 Share #12 Posted August 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said: The ISO dial?? You've got to be kidding. Is this the problem? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P8050172 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr See his linked pic...most of the ‘4’ in 6400 is missing. Easily fixed. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share #13 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jeff S said: See his linked pic...most of the ‘4’ in 6400 is missing. Easily fixed. Jeff You're right. I hadn't looked at his pic. My M9 spent it's entire life as an I I 9 for this reason. I used to tape over all the identifying information, but life's too short. Edited August 5, 2020 by scott kirkpatrick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted August 5, 2020 Share #14 Posted August 5, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, scott kirkpatrick said: The ISO dial?? You've got to be kidding. Is this the problem? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P8050172 by scott kirkpatrick, on Flickr Look at the ISO dial on his M10R in the photo here: https://devinpense.smugmug.com/Forum-Shots/i-FXmWs4X Call me OCD, but I would exchange it over this flaw, too. For $8295 American dollars, we are paying for - and should receive - perfection. My M10 Monochrom was flawless when it arrived a month ago, as was my Q2 when it arrived last November, as was M-P 240 when it arrived a little over five years ago. JMHO but there's no reason that @thedwp should accept this kind of flaw as "normal." Edited August 5, 2020 by Herr Barnack 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikep996 Posted August 5, 2020 Share #15 Posted August 5, 2020 I absolutely agree that the flaw is unacceptable in a new, out of the box camera. Sure, if it happened after I owned it, I'd fill it with some white paint it or ignore it completely. I'd also have no issue with buying a used Leica with that as "cosmetic issue." But it absolutely is not acceptable to come that way from Leica. As far as pic quality/color, etc, as has often been stated, that's totally in the eye of the beholder. If you (or your customers) don't like the rendering then that's reason enough to decide it's not suitable and return it. I realize that many folks would say - "fix it in post," but why should you have to do unnecessary work if another camera eliminates that step? Related to new, out of the box items - I ordered/received (yesterday) a Tascam 12 audio mixer/recorder. It was brand new in sealed original packing, no damage - absolutely pristine outer and inner boxes. But one of the gain control trimmers was broken loose from the internal circuit board. I can't see any way it could have happened in any part of the shipping process. Since it was in the original, UNDAMAGED packing, it obviously left the factory that way. The point is, thoroughly examine any product you receive nowadays and do not accept it if it is not perfect. It's not like when you used to go to a real camera (or whatever) store, open the factory-sealed box and examine the item before handing over money and walking out the door with it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedwp Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share #16 Posted August 5, 2020 Thanks for the perspective gents. It was probably the missing 4 that sent me into a Leica fit. My original M10, now my M10-P, M10-M and Q-P all had acceptable markings...my M6, not so much lol.....There’s always a first time for everything. I mean if the W was missing from a brand new BMW, I’m driving a BM! That said, it’s not used, it’s a brand new item and I’m still going to have them swap it out. If for some reason I decide to part ways with it later, it may or may not impact the resale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted August 5, 2020 Share #17 Posted August 5, 2020 Who on earth did the quality check on this thing? It might be a simple issue to fix (assuming it’s engraved correctly, can’t tell from photo) but to me these kinds of things raise bigger questions about Leica quality control inspections and procedures. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted August 5, 2020 Share #18 Posted August 5, 2020 If it’s engraved correctly you could fix it yourself but given it’s brand new out of box like that I’d send it back on principle and demand an exchange. Don’t let them make you wait for the repair. Demand an exchange or refund. Like others have said, it’s not acceptable for an $8k+ camera body. Hard to believe how it could leave the factory like that and pass quality inspection... 2 minutes ago, thedwp said: Thanks for the perspective gents. It was probably the missing 4 that sent me into a Leica fit. My original M10, now my M10-P, M10-M and Q-P all had acceptable markings...my M6, not so much lol.....There’s always a first time for everything. I mean if the W was missing from a brand new BMW, I’m driving a BM! That said, it’s not used, it’s a brand new item and I’m still going to have them swap it out. If for some reason I decide to part ways with it later, it may or may not impact the resale. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted August 5, 2020 Share #19 Posted August 5, 2020 Nobody making mistakes here? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog-digital Posted August 5, 2020 Share #20 Posted August 5, 2020 vor 1 Stunde schrieb scott kirkpatrick: The ISO dial?? You've got to be kidding. Is this the problem? Why should he be joking? At the latest when he wants to sell the M10-R again, he has a problem! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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