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Got my m10-R today. Sending it back tomorrow

thedwp

By thedwp
in Leica M10

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rivi1969

rivi1969

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2 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

To be clear.........pieces of them are made in Portugal.

http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/80FDTimes-LEICA-PortugalFactoryTour.pdf

Final products are made in Portugal as one can see at their Portugal factory tour.

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farnz
farnz

Such a flaw is unacceptable.  Demand that Leica sends the piece of missing paint to you immediately! Pete. 

Herr Barnack
Herr Barnack

Look at the ISO dial on his M10R in the photo here:  https://devinpense.smugmug.com/Forum-Shots/i-FXmWs4X Call me OCD, but I would exchange it over this flaw, too.  For $8295 American dollars, we

IkarusJohn
IkarusJohn

So, the OP bought the latest and greatest 40MP M camera; and it cost a lot; it’s an exclusive item from a famous brand. Not clear what other M cameras he has owned.  He finds old firmware (which makes

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rivi1969

rivi1969

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2 minutes ago, Matlock said:

As I understand from Leica, they are made in Portugal with final assembly and finishing carried out in Germany.

If you see the PDF of the Leica tour, many lenses, including the 50mm Summicron are 100% made and finished there. SO is the SL body and some of the Ms. For some reason is like a "secret" no one should talk about. 

http://www.fdtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/80FDTimes-LEICA-PortugalFactoryTour.pdf

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Jeff S

Jeff S

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11 minutes ago, Matlock said:

True, but he said:   “after the few side by side images I saw with my m10-p, I may push pause on getting another R for a while.” But also “to be fair I had it in hand barely an hour.”

I read it.  The point is that after shooting for barely an hour, he already was reconsidering his purchase. Strange.

Jeff

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Robert Blanko

Robert Blanko

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb Cobram:

Don't want to argue here but can you answer me this question:

why are second hand Leica cameras valued also according to paint damage/loss? Why even declare mint, as new, excellent etc condition? And why different price tags for mint as new camera comparing to excellent camera with minor paint damage/scratches? 

I do think cosmetic problems affect resale value. 

I think that is exactly the point (disregarding potential increase in value due to the imperfection for collectors):

While the imperfection would hardly have any negative effect when taking pictures, it is precisely the ultimate perfection that you expect from a camera having said price tag - and that customers have paid for.

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rivi1969

rivi1969

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37 minutes ago, Matlock said:

As I understand from Leica, they are made in Portugal with final assembly and finishing carried out in Germany.

There are pictures of 100% finished products. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

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Matlock

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33 minutes ago, rivi1969 said:

There are pictures of 100% finished products. 

 

Thanks. It rather depends on what is printed on the lens and package. If it says Made in Germany and it is made in Portugal, that would be illegal. If it says just Germany (or of course assembled in Germany) then it would be OK. I don't think Leica would be silly enough to contravene trade laws. If the final assembly is carried out in Germany then Made in Germany is quite legal.

 

Just had a look at a 28mm f/5.6 Summaron-M and it does show just "Germany".

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Chaemono

Chaemono

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vor 36 Minuten schrieb rivi1969:

There are pictures of 100% finished products. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

No dark-haired woman in the back nor hairy hand holding the lenses on the right, so I can’t really tell that the picture was taken in Portugal. Even in the picture on the left, it could be descendants of guest workers from the 1970s. Please, present evidence with dark-haired or hairy people holding finished lenses. Thanks. 😂

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250swb

250swb

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1 hour ago, Robert Blanko said:

While the imperfection would hardly have any negative effect when taking pictures, it is precisely the ultimate perfection that you expect from a camera having said price tag - and that customers have paid for.

So how come there are so many 'what strap?' questions if the Leica strap is so good? Levels of perfection are relative, the M10R is only temporarily perfect until the M11.

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Robert Blanko

Robert Blanko

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vor 8 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

So how come there are so many 'what strap?' questions if the Leica strap is so good? Levels of perfection are relative, the M10R is only temporarily perfect until the M11.

Then let‘s call this „perfection in craftsmanship“, which does not exclude that it is based on an awkward (depending on personal preferences) design.

 

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rivi1969

rivi1969

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1 hour ago, Matlock said:

Thanks. It rather depends on what is printed on the lens and package. If it says Made in Germany and it is made in Portugal, that would be illegal. If it says just Germany (or of course assembled in Germany) then it would be OK. I don't think Leica would be silly enough to contravene trade laws. If the final assembly is carried out in Germany then Made in Germany is quite legal.

 

Just had a look at a 28mm f/5.6 Summaron-M and it does show just "Germany".

Clever lawyers.
 

The same with watches, if some part of the whole process involved Switzerland, they can go with the “Swiss Made” selling line and get away with it. 

None of current Leica products mention Portugal anywhere. As you can see, the 50mm Summicron apparently made in Portugal says “Made in Germany”.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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analog-digital

analog-digital

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vor 11 Stunden schrieb Cobram:

Fourth: I'm R&D engineer, working for a German company in one of its Europe centers. Germany and german quality (and here please don't think I'm racist) is no longer what we knew in the past. German industry pay way more attention to outsourcing from (mostly) China than to final quality of their products. Every year I see more and more products with labels: "german quality control", "German design", "German engineering" with added german national flag colors to make you think and perceive product as of "old days" german quality. Similar is with cars. I think I will never buy another german "made" car. So many problems for such a high price. Chinese components assembled together in Munchen or Nurnberg 🙂 

Fifth: I personally think every sector and every country do the same - Germany is not alone here. That's why we have to buy new clothes almost every year (decrease in quality), new phone, etc. I just think we should look at the new reality and admit there is no country, company, product or brand not affected by globalisation and cost reduction --> which of course translates sooner or later also in lower quality products.

 

That means in plain language, Leica's products, M's in particular, are overpaid. Massively overpaid. Because they are not that much "better" than they cost more.

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Matlock

Matlock

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1 hour ago, rivi1969 said:

Clever lawyers.
 

The same with watches, if some part of the whole process involved Switzerland, they can go with the “Swiss Made” selling line and get away with it. 

None of current Leica products mention Portugal anywhere. As you can see, the 50mm Summicron apparently made in Portugal says “Made in Germany”.

 

As I said the Summaron only says "Germany" which is fine but if the Summicron says "Made in Germany" and is made in Portugal that would be a breech of trade laws and I don't think Leica would risk that. I don't have a modern Summicron to compare (mine is a 2001 lens). 

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rivi1969

rivi1969

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3 minutes ago, Matlock said:

As I said the Summaron only says "Germany" which is fine but if the Summicron says "Made in Germany" and is made in Portugal that would be a breech of trade laws and I don't think Leica would risk that. I don't have a modern Summicron to compare (mine is a 2001 lens). 

The evidence I provide is from a brand new, current gen lens. The engraving is tiny and with no white ink, barely visible. I have one Steinhart which is assembly in Germany with a Swiss ETA movement and the dial says "Made in Swiss" so I guess every company is free to decide what nomenclature suits them best.

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pop

pop

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vor 11 Minuten schrieb rivi1969:

dial says "Made in Swiss"

It wouldn't say that it if was made in Switzerland. The country's name is Switzerland. If it really says "Made in Swiss" it's most likely a fake. "Made in Switzerland" is the term to look for.

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rivi1969

rivi1969

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1 minute ago, pop said:

It wouldn't say that it if was made in Switzerland. The country's name is Switzerland. If it really says "Made in Swiss" it's most likely a fake. "Made in Switzerland" is the term to look for.

My mistake, it says SWISS MADE, just as my Date Just, not "Switzerland" nor MADE IN SWISS, And I don't buy fake watches.

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