M-10 vs type 240 / 262

[Mahesh]

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All, apologies if this is covered elsewhere. I can either buy a new type 262 for a very good price or pay more to get an M10-P.

I assume a number of people having an M10 or a variant have used 240 / 262.

Please could you let me know what key differences did you notice in picture quality - colour signature, dynamic range, etc.  I am aware of the obvious hardware differences. Thank you.

[a.noctilux]

I use them along for some years now.

I have not seen "key" differences in results on my pictures with same lenses.

I'd take either one 😇 if no need to use more than 6400 ISO.

Of course, your choice may be different, but each one can give very nice pictures.

M10, thinner in hand but not lighter, can be a bit more modern in use and if battery life can be a concern, the other M (240/262) can be better candidates.

 

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[Alex1976]

I have both. I really like the 240 colors. You have to be careful not to overexpose highlights because not recoverable and can’t go beyond ISO 3200 realistically but find that is fine for most of my needs. I also personally like video aspect (have a toddler) and battery life is amazing. There is no doubt that the M10 is a more modern camera, looks more modern, more dynamic range on that sensor, etc. up to 6400 no problem. The body is very nice. If it were me I’d get a used 240 and wait for the M11 and upgrade. I think an M11 is coming next year or late this year (only a guess). My two cents, Al

[satijntje]

For me M240. 
I like M240 colours more then the output of the M10

Better battery life. 

M240 has video in case you need it  

..... and of course it is roughly only half the M10 price  

 

john

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by satijntje

[Mahesh]

Thanks everyone. I was surprised to hear about better colours with the older model, but that definitely helps my decision. For almost half the price of M10, a new M 262 seems a bargain. 

[darylgo]

M10 has improved shadow recovery, less noise in the shadows.  The M240 continues to provide IQ that will satisfy most photographers, the incremental improvements of the M10 hardware can be beneficial if you need greater speed, a better evf, upsized rangefinder windows, the M10-P added level gauge that the M10 lacked, touchscreen and quieter shutter.  The quieter shutter also has less vibration when used in live view, this can be important if the camera is tripod mounted and shutter speeds of 1/4-1/15 are used.   These speeds can be troublesome on many cameras.  

[Casey Jefferson]

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I just gotten my first Leica which is a 240 and it just oozes some of the most amazing vibrant colors I've seen. That's coming from a GFX. I think bigger part of it is the Leica lenses, but my friend chosen 240 over M10 when he bought his.

Interestingly I'm seeing a different color rendering on M10P, more vibrant yet retain the M10 character (towards cooler and more magenta compared to 240). M10P is way out if my budget so I'd go with 240 and save up for M10P when M11 hit the market...

[Tailwagger]

Contrarian opinion. Far prefer the M10's white balance and color rendition. The 240, which I also own, is problematic with reds, IMO. EVF,  if thats of any interest, is quite poor with rather annoyingly extended blackout periods. The battery is undoubtedly superior, but the M10 has usably improved DR.  Most folks seem to prefer the simple Off/On of the M10, though personally I prefer the three position switch of the  240, as although I often inadvertently wound up in continuous mode, I preferred that to having to fumble through menus when I suddenly found myself need a series of shots.  

[Anakronox]

I know it’s been covered, but the M240’s dynamic range in the shadows is poorer than the M10’s.  The M240 sensor has problems with green banding when shadows are pushed in post.  So you sometimes have to choose between protecting highlights and under exposing, while risking the banding.  

Edited July 12, 2020 by Anakronox

[analog-digital]

Am 9.7.2020 um 15:06 schrieb Mahesh:

All, apologies if this is covered elsewhere. I can either buy a new type 262 for a very good price or pay more to get an M10-P.

I assume a number of people having an M10 or a variant have used 240 / 262.

Please could you let me know what key differences did you notice in picture quality - colour signature, dynamic range, etc.  I am aware of the obvious hardware differences. Thank you.

How much more is more?

Edited July 12, 2020 by analog-digital

[Guest Nowhereman]

On 7/10/2020 at 3:55 PM, Mahesh said:

...I was surprised to hear about better colours with the older model, but that definitely helps my decision...

I wouldn't decide on the basis of what someone on the internet,  or this on forum, said about color rendition: color vision and taste are highly variable among people and you need to see an objective comparison if this is the basis of your decision. (Incidentally, I'm writing this without having looked what was said about this earlier in this thread — but, from what I have seen, I prefer the color rendition of the M10; but, note, that I haven't provided any proof here...)
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[Adam Bonn]

Shouldn’t be posting as I don’t have an M10 😅

I bought an M240 secondhand as it was about half the price of a secondhand M10 (I also have an M9)

I was occasionally a bit put off by the 240 images (colours and they often seemed a little flat) in LR but in capture one it’s much less work to get my tastes. In the case of the 240, C1 deals with noise better than LR as well.

I’ve only noticed green shadows in one of my M240 shots, but I’ve run into banding a few times (in both cases pushing the files quite hard)

I’ve downloaded and edited all the available M10 variant DNGs from DPR and compared to the 240 the M10 files seem a lot cleaner, able to take more lifting of the shadows and for want of a better word I’d say more modern looking.

Colours seem strong yet natural on the M10, the M240 can be a bit oversaturated IMO, and not necessarily in a Steve McCurry pleasing sort of way

That said, as an early poster correctly mentioned, pleasing colour is a personal thing. And the different colour nuances of different cameras suit different scenes. Which starts getting into what one likes to shoot.

If you took an M10 and an M240 out for a day and shot the same things with the same lens, then the net result would be win some/lose some for each camera (always is when you compare two similar things that do the same job)

So you have to ask yourself what you want? Are the only two tangible benefits of the 240 system (battery life and video) must haves for you, or perhaps the fact that the M10 hasn’t exactly reinvented the wheel or pushed the technology envelope into the stratosphere compared to the M240 is enough to be happy with the cost saving...

...equally of course if the heart wants the M10 (and let’s be honest, it probably does 😄) not to mention the thinness, better evf option, bigger OVF greater DR, ISO etc then anything else might just be a stop gap until the heart gets what it wants... and buying the thing we don’t want because it’s cheaper than the thing we do want often doesn’t turn out cheaper at all....

 

But make no mistake, the 240 is a still a good camera, it’s more advanced with FW than when it was launched and modern software editors do better things with its files. An older model never gets worse because a newer model comes out, and an even newer model is never that far away...

 

HTH?

[tom.w.bn]

Currently I have no digital rangefinder. I sold my M240 because I could not see much use between film and DSLM with a tele lens. Because I miss the combination of rangefinder and digital (and right now film is not my favorite thing), I intensively thought about the Leica camera I would like to have. Took a deep look at my archive of M240 images and absolutely liked what I rediscovered. Normally I don't care too much about the out of camera colours as long as the camera does not make it hard to achieve MyColours. Did not have a problem to get what I want from the M240 files.

It is said that the M10 has more pleasing out of camera colour. If that is important for you, you should probably go for the M10. Although I mainly shoot landscapes I did not discover problems with the M240 dynamic range at base iso. It's much different at higher iso values though. Pushing a high iso file (> 1600) in a dark environment from the M240 is really hard. The blacks have to stay black, if you raise them you have to live with lots of unpleasant banding. Don't know if one stop more with the M10 would really make me happy. This sensor is good but still not comparable to the top of the line sensors of other camera makers.

The options I thought of in the last couple of days were the new M10R, waiting for a price drop in used M10s, or buying a M240 again. The pleasure I got from the M240 files and the difference in price was the reason to press the buy button for a nice chrome M240 yesterday. Part of the decision was the fact that I still have and will keep my big DSLM dynamic range monster. 

 

 

[Mahesh]

On 7/12/2020 at 6:49 PM, analog-digital said:

How much more is more?

Well.. M10 for £5700, M10-P for about £6400 and M262 for about £3100 🤩

Edited July 14, 2020 by Mahesh

[benqui]

I have the M240-P and I am very happy with the camera. Never had to use an additional battery during a 3 hr portrait shooting. B/W is really beautiful and I think that the price/performance ratio is very good for the M240/262. I would propose you try the M240 as well as the M10 and let your heart decide. For sure you will make good photos with the 240/262 as well with the M10. And I have to admit that the M10-P looks very sexy.

[Mahesh]

On 7/13/2020 at 8:12 PM, Adam Bonn said:

Shouldn’t be posting as I don’t have an M10 😅

I bought an M240 secondhand as it was about half the price of a secondhand M10 (I also have an M9)

I was occasionally a bit put off by the 240 images (colours and they often seemed a little flat) in LR but in capture one it’s much less work to get my tastes. In the case of the 240, C1 deals with noise better than LR as well.

I’ve only noticed green shadows in one of my M240 shots, but I’ve run into banding a few times (in both cases pushing the files quite hard)

I’ve downloaded and edited all the available M10 variant DNGs from DPR and compared to the 240 the M10 files seem a lot cleaner, able to take more lifting of the shadows and for want of a better word I’d say more modern looking.

Colours seem strong yet natural on the M10, the M240 can be a bit oversaturated IMO, and not necessarily in a Steve McCurry pleasing sort of way

That said, as an early poster correctly mentioned, pleasing colour is a personal thing. And the different colour nuances of different cameras suit different scenes. Which starts getting into what one likes to shoot.

If you took an M10 and an M240 out for a day and shot the same things with the same lens, then the net result would be win some/lose some for each camera (always is when you compare two similar things that do the same job)

So you have to ask yourself what you want? Are the only two tangible benefits of the 240 system (battery life and video) must haves for you, or perhaps the fact that the M10 hasn’t exactly reinvented the wheel or pushed the technology envelope into the stratosphere compared to the M240 is enough to be happy with the cost saving...

...equally of course if the heart wants the M10 (and let’s be honest, it probably does 😄) not to mention the thinness, better evf option, bigger OVF greater DR, ISO etc then anything else might just be a stop gap until the heart gets what it wants... and buying the thing we don’t want because it’s cheaper than the thing we do want often doesn’t turn out cheaper at all....

 

But make no mistake, the 240 is a still a good camera, it’s more advanced with FW than when it was launched and modern software editors do better things with its files. An older model never gets worse because a newer model comes out, and an even newer model is never that far away...

 

HTH?

Thanks, I agree about thinking what one's heart wants. After all choosing a Leica is more of a heart's choice than necessarily brain's. I might go for M10-P which I was thinking to start with. That helps certainly...  

[nuc001]

4 hours ago, Mahesh said:

Thanks, I agree about thinking what one's heart wants. After all choosing a Leica is more of a heart's choice than necessarily brain's. I might go for M10-P which I was thinking to start with. That helps certainly...  

Started from where you were and ended up with an M10-P.....the heart wants what the heart wants 😂