M10R

[sillbeers15]

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The rumours about a SL2/Q2 47.3MP sensor has been going on in Leicarumor site.

[fatihayoglu]

We will find out next month

[FrozenInTime]

The M10M with it's new sensor suggests it won’t be the same as the SL2 and that it would be long before it’s on the market; all they need is a bayer filter, a touch of colour calibration and new firmware.

 

[sillbeers15]

9 minutes ago, fatihayoglu said:

We will find out next month

 

9 minutes ago, fatihayoglu said:

We will find out next month

Are you able to confirm if it is the same sensor from SL2 & Q2?

If true. Then the M10-R will come with IBIS

and the Multishot mode.

That is what I have been waiting for. I own the SL2, and have tried out the 187MP Multishot mode on real pics. Awesome!

[fatihayoglu]

I think IBIS is unlikely, the body is pretty small for that

[M11 for me]

If the camera would get the SL2/Q2 sensor then all the former information we have about the special precautions to be taken for the M because of its lenses and size of body would be wrong. It would just be possible to take any sensor that fits the body? What about that argument?

[onasj]

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No IBIS (that will hopefully come in the M11).  I would expect a 41 MP color version of the M10M sensor, rather than the 47 MP SL2 sensor. Frankly, the way the 47 MP sensor was implemented in the SL2 handles low light/high ISO, so if it turns out to the the 47 MP sensor rather than the 41 MP sensor, I hope they do a better job with the high ISO performance. The S1R, which has the same 47 MP sensor as the SL2, extracts more dynamic range and better high-ISO performance than the SL2:

https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica SL2,Panasonic Lumix DC-S1R

 

[onasj]

1 minute ago, M10 for me said:

If the camera would get the SL2/Q2 sensor then all the former information we have about the special precautions to be taken for the M because of its lenses and size of body would be wrong. It would just be possible to take any sensor that fits the body? What about that argument?

Yes, talk about how a high-resolution M body wouldn't be possible, wouldn't result in better image quality, etc. etc. is not true, at least as a general principle.  We already know that because of the M10M, and because of math.  Some people don't want or don't need the extra resolution, but a higher resolution sensor offers real benefits in some situations.

See this thread: 

 

 

[sillbeers15]

I had the M10 & SL both 24MP sensor. I sold both when the 47MP sensor was on it’s way. Now I have the SL2 and am waiting for the 47MP sensor M. There is no going back once I get hooked onto the high resolution sensor & SL glasses. The M glasses ( modern ones) should be still good for 47MP. Below is the link to a 187MP Multishot taken with SL2 & 16-35VE. 
 

https://flic.kr/p/2jdRpB4

 

[Anakronox]

If the M10-R has the same sensor as the Q2, then count me out.  The Q2’s high ISO performance is terrible. I’d rather have 24 megapixels with the M10 and excellent ISO quality to 6400, whereas the Q2 breaks up and looks awful at 1600.  I know that this is subjective, but when I compare these two bodies side by side, I’ll pick the M10 or M10M every time if I know I’ll be working in marginal light.  For the record, I own the M10, M10M, and Q2 so I can compare them and shoot to my tastes. 

[mmradman]

33 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

I had the M10 & SL both 24MP sensor. I sold both when the 47MP sensor was on it’s way. Now I have the SL2 and am waiting for the 47MP sensor M. There is no going back once I get hooked onto the high resolution sensor & SL glasses. The M glasses ( modern ones) should be still good for 47MP. Below is the link to a 187MP Multishot taken with SL2 & 16-35VE. 
 

https://flic.kr/p/2jdRpB4

 

Difficult to argue against. You managed water ripples nicely.

Once the technology is out and camera can accommodate it without decrement to basic functions it should be provided, features like focus stacking or pixel shift are a real treat for an occasional user of such functions.

i think the IBIS is a new must have regardless of resolution or other IBIS derivatives. SL line got it, perhaps  M line should be next, argument about small body size I don’t accept, both Sony and Nikon are fitting IBIS enabled full frame sensors to “similar bar of soap” to M.

Edited June 26, 2020 by mmradman

[Jeff S]

The expectation has been that the M10 R will share the sensor with the 40 MP M10 Monochrom, adding a Bayer array, with each using the architecture derived from the S3 sensor to create economies of scale (discussed elsewhere).  I can’t imagine IBIS fitting into an M10 platform body, given how hard Leica worked to pull off the slimmer M10 (with modest battery), and dealing with heat dissipation. But Leica can often surprise.

Jeff

[sillbeers15]

33 minutes ago, mmradman said:

Difficult to argue against. You managed water ripples nicely.

Once the technology is out and camera can accommodate it without decrement to basic functions it should be provided, features like focus stacking or pixel shift are a real treat for an occasional user of such functions.

i think the IBIS is a new must have regardless of resolution or other IBIS derivatives. SL line got it, perhaps  M line should be next, argument about small body size I don’t accept, both Sony and Nikon are fitting IBIS enabled full frame sensors to “similar bar of soap” to M.

I share your thoughts. I will not pick up the M10-R if it did not offer IBIS after experiencing the benefits of it from the SL2. So a 41MP sensor will not cut the mustard. I will have to wait for the M11 then. At 47MP, there will be IBIS as it is the sensor that offers IBIS. And because of IBIS, there can be Multishot function.

[LBJ2]

6 hours ago, Anakronox said:

If the M10-R has the same sensor as the Q2, then count me out.  The Q2’s high ISO performance is terrible. I’d rather have 24 megapixels with the M10 and excellent ISO quality to 6400, whereas the Q2 breaks up and looks awful at 1600.  I know that this is subjective, but when I compare these two bodies side by side, I’ll pick the M10 or M10M every time if I know I’ll be working in marginal light.  For the record, I own the M10, M10M, and Q2 so I can compare them and shoot to my tastes. 

I was trying to find a way to communicate exactly the same. Then I read your post. Thank you 😉 I am not willing to pay Leica Rangefinder price for the SL2/Q2 sensor. 

[Alexander-HH]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb sillbeers15:

At 47MP, there will be IBIS as it is the sensor that offers IBIS.

Not necessarily, IBIS is a separate mechanism holding (and stabilizing) the sensor. The Q2 has no IBIS as far as I know, but OIS (lens stabilizer).

Alex

Edited June 26, 2020 by Alexander-HH

[bherman01545]

One of the biggest factors which related to 'cost' on a Leica rangefinder has nothing to do with its sensor.

It is the rangefinder, which is extremely-expensive to make (and adjust) and all done by hand

[LBJ2]

7 hours ago, onasj said:

No IBIS (that will hopefully come in the M11).  I would expect a 41 MP color version of the M10M sensor, rather than the 47 MP SL2 sensor. Frankly, the way the 47 MP sensor was implemented in the SL2 handles low light/high ISO, so if it turns out to the the 47 MP sensor rather than the 41 MP sensor, I hope they do a better job with the high ISO performance. The S1R, which has the same 47 MP sensor as the SL2, extracts more dynamic range and better high-ISO performance than the SL2:

https://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Leica SL2,Panasonic Lumix DC-S1R

 

Agree here too. The brand new M10-M sensor gives one hope for the M10-R. 

[jplomley]

I can see 47 MP for landscape photography, but is this not overkill for street photography? Is this genre really associated with technically perfect images? My feeling is that Leica has gotten caught up in the MP race and it's now impacting platforms where its not really required. Makes sense for higher MP in the SL2 and the S3, but not their street machines.

[bherman01545]

Agreed, and IMO the M platform isn’t geared towards landscape photography anyway. I think that 24mp is more than enough for street, wedding and general photography

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LBJ2]

28 minutes ago, jplomley said:

I can see 47 MP for landscape photography, but is this not overkill for street photography? Is this genre really associated with technically perfect images? My feeling is that Leica has gotten caught up in the MP race and it's now impacting platforms where its not really required. Makes sense for higher MP in the SL2 and the S3, but not their street machines.

Yes. I think Leica pretty much agreed the market currently expects higher MPs cameras. And yes there are potential IQ tradeoffs to adding more/smaller MPs. SL2 and Q2 are good examples IMO. Other manufacturers offer both high MP FF cameras and 24-30 MP FF cameras. Like everything else, right tool for the job. More MPs doesn't necessarily mean better overall image quality for all applications. The way I see it M10 for those that are happy with and only need 24MPs and the M10-R for those that need/want more resolution. Just adding another option/choice to the M10 system M10/D/P/M/R. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by LBJ2