What is the difference between an R8 and R9

[wlaidlaw]

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I have recently bought a motor-winder drive R8 camera, as my existing R8 motor winder is dead with a totally seized electric motor and my R9  was behaving very oddly as well. I am hoping this was just due to the seized motor reducing the battery voltage, as it was virtually shorted out at only 5Ω and obviously since not rotating, no back EMF. I don't have the non-motor 2 x 2CR battery compartment so cannot try the R9 by itself. I have been told by a Leica repairer, that when not in use for more that a couple of weeks or so, the batteries should be removed from a motor-winder powered R8 or R9, as there is no power switch on the winder, unlike the various M motors. The power switch on the camera does not necessarily power down the winder. I think this is what may have happened to my winder. 

Ffordes were offering an Exc+ R8 with motor-winder with warranty, at less than many folks were asking for just the camera and even if my R9 springs to life again with a new winder, as I expect it will, given that these cameras are not repairable, it seems to make sense to have a spare tucked away . I have been told by a number of folks that the R8 motor-winder is fragile and fault prone, unlike the various M winders, which seem pretty bullet proof, so yesterday I managed to acquire at a German auction a NOS and unused R8 motor-winder at a very reasonable cost, less than half of what some dealers are asking for used ones. I  just hope the M11 does not arrive soon, as what with these and various lens purchases, I have blown the budget for this year. 

I  downloaded the R8 manual last night and having read it through, I am a bit puzzled as to what is the difference between an R8 and R9. It must be a pretty subtle difference as the spec seems more or less the same. What are the differences? 

Wilson

Edited April 15, 2020 by wlaidlaw

[jaapv]

Wil van Manen does repair R8 and R9 cameras if possible but obviously has no spares, and the problem is, that even if he had, these machines are so over-engineered that they are mostly an economic write-off anyway. Different electronics, they react differently to the DMR in the switching on and off. The top plate is another material IIRC.

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[masjah]

Wilson, there are several small, but useful differences:

The R9 is a bit lighter in weight, because of different materials for the top and base. This is why the R9 has a thin ceramic coat finish on the top plate (anthracite or black) and not chrome.

The mode switch has a lock button to prevent accidental movement (some think this is more of a nuisance rather than s benefit).

It is believed that the tripod screw thread goes deeper in on the R9 than the R8. (The R8 meets ISO standards, but some tripods have a screw that is too long by the ISO standard, and can cause significant damage. I think Andy Barton was faced with this, and I think the tripod manufacturer reimbursed him repair costs.)

The R9 has a little LCD frame counter display on the top plate.

The R9 back display panel can be illuminated (surprisingly useful in church interiors!).

On the R9, exposure lock (half press on the shutter button) is available on selective and  centre weighted metering modes (just selective on R8).

High Speed Sync flash is supported on the R9. There is an additional photodiode (by the pentaprism I think) to help accomplish this, which I hear has a useful supplementary effect when trying to use flash with a DMR, though I don't know anything about this. Also, in programme mode (P) the details of the circumstances in which flash will cut in under poor light are a bit different. On the R9, with ROM lenses, a minimum shutter speed of 1/focal length is used; 1/250 on non ROM lenses and on the R8. Best SCA adapter to use on R9 is therefore 3502 M3 (for HSS) rather than 3501 originally recommended on R8, though both will work on both cameras within the intersection of the available facilities of flash unit and camera.

Some say that R8 metering cells are  more prone to failure, but that might just be that R8 cameras are older.

There may be other differences that I've forgotten!

[andybarton]

John is right.

 

I screwed my Manfrotto into the R8 and the thread jammed the shutter. I got a new tripod plate and a full CLA from Solms out of them. 
 

Both the tripod screw and the R8 socket were just on the acceptable ISO/DIN limits for length or depth, but combined, the thread just pushed the bottom plate up enough to snag the shutter.

The meter on my R8 failed, so it’s now an expensive ornament on the shelf.

 

I’d go for an R9 every time

[masjah]

Two other very minor differences I've just thought of. On the R8, you have to press one of the ISO changing buttons at the back to bring up the film ISO in the back display; on the R9 it's there all the time.

I think an R9 will switch off an attached DMR when it itself is switched off. With the R8 I think you have to switch off a DMR separately.

(Getting really nit picking now! I have some sympathy with the view that the R9 ought to have been named the R8.2.)

 

[andrew01]

R9s definitely have a few subtle upgrades that are nice to have, but the going rate on the used market seems to be double what R8s go for in similar condition.  I think the R9 price is too steep given it is not possible to get them serviced.

[earleygallery]

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8 hours ago, andybarton said:

John is right.

 

I screwed my Manfrotto into the R8 and the thread jammed the shutter. I got a new tripod plate and a full CLA from Solms out of them. 
 

Both the tripod screw and the R8 socket were on the acceptable limits for length or depth, but combined, the thread just pushed the bottom plate up enough to snag the shutter.

The meter on my R8 failed, so it’s now an expensive ornament on the shelf.

 

I’d go for an R9 every time

Hi Andy,

Out of interest, does the shutter still work OK i.e. could you just use it as a manual only camera?

The R3's seem to suffer from meter failure and/or top speed shutter faults. Not sure if the faults are linked.

 

 

[andybarton]

The shutter wouldn't work at all until Leica fixed it. 

 

It wasn't the meter, it was the actual shutter mechanism. Parts of it must be just inside the base plate.

 

I could still use it as a manual camera. The shutter now works fine and the speeds are all good. It's just that I have moved on.

[earleygallery]

3 minutes ago, andybarton said:

The shutter wouldn't work at all until Leica fixed it. 

 

It wasn't the meter, it was the actual shutter mechanism. Parts of it must be just inside the base plate.

 

I could still use it as a manual camera. The shutter now works fine and the speeds are all good. It's just that I have moved on.

Sorry I meant as it is now (not the tripod incident which I remember at the time!) i.e. developed a metering fault but the shutter still works OK.

[andybarton]

Yes. The meter went TU a few years later. I then sold the DMR that I used with it and have never used it again.

[masjah]

3 hours ago, andrew01 said:

R9s definitely have a few subtle upgrades that are nice to have, but the going rate on the used market seems to be double what R8s go for in similar condition.  I think the R9 price is too steep given it is not possible to get them serviced.

Andrew, in a way it's precisely because these cameras can't be serviced that the R9 costs so much more. Being newer cameras, they might be expected to have (on average) a greater life expectancy, as well as the additional features. I suspect there may well be one or two minor improvements under the bonnet which a new model's introduction facilitated, but who knows? Personally I agree with Andy, and would go for an R9 every time. But of course, at the end of the day you pays your money and you makes you choice.

[wlaidlaw]

The R8 with motor winder was less than half what an R9 with motor winder would have cost me and I get a warranty from Steve at Ffordes. Hopefully transplanting the motor-winder from the R8 to my R9, will make it spring back to life, as it was sort of working with the dead winder. I then have a brand new old stock motor-winder arriving next week from Germany, which I only found after buying the R8. I will then decide if I am going to keep the R8 or sell it on with the winder and look for another R9, without winder to keep as a spare. Given how many ROM lenses I now have, I really need to have a working R8 or 9 and a spare. 

Wilson

[earleygallery]

45 minutes ago, masjah said:

Andrew, in a way it's precisely because these cameras can't be serviced that the R9 costs so much more. Being newer cameras, they might be expected to have (on average) a greater life expectancy, as well as the additional features. I suspect there may well be one or two minor improvements under the bonnet which a new model's introduction facilitated, but who knows? Personally I agree with Andy, and would go for an R9 every time. But of course, at the end of the day you pays your money and you makes you choice.

The other point that is probably a factor in the higher value of the R9 is that is also the last of the line of 35mm SLR's that Leica made.

[james.liam]

17 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

The R8 with motor winder was less than half what an R9 with motor winder would have cost me and I get a warranty from Steve at Ffordes. Hopefully transplanting the motor-winder from the R8 to my R9, will make it spring back to life, as it was sort of working with the dead winder. I then have a brand new old stock motor-winder arriving next week from Germany, which I only found after buying the R8. I will then decide if I am going to keep the R8 or sell it on with the winder and look for another R9, without winder to keep as a spare. Given how many ROM lenses I now have, I really need to have a working R8 or 9 and a spare. 

Wilson

Is this the smaller motor winder that requires batteries or the larger, rechargeable one you're speaking about?

[wlaidlaw]

James, it is the smaller motor-winder, which uses 2 x CR123A batteries that it shares with the camera. Unless you are a sports photographer, it is a far better option than the much larger and heavier Motor R8, which uses a rechargeable battery pack underneath the already large motor. It is all close to the size of the DMR. The CR123A batteries last over 10 rolls of film, as I took spare batteries to India but did not need them. See here for what arrived in the post today and brought a very large smile to my face: 

Wilson 

[masjah]

On 4/15/2020 at 2:11 PM, masjah said:

Two other very minor differences I've just thought of. On the R8, you have to press one of the ISO changing buttons at the back to bring up the film ISO in the back display; on the R9 it's there all the time.

I think an R9 will switch off an attached DMR when it itself is switched off. With the R8 I think you have to switch off a DMR separately.

(Getting really nit picking now! I have some sympathy with the view that the R9 ought to have been named the R8.2.)

 

And finally: There are a couple of bits of plastic on the top plate which prevent the locking clips of the camera strap from rubbing and marking the top plate. On the R8 they are not big enough to do this job properly. They are a bit bigger on the R9!