farnz Posted March 11, 2020 Share #21  Posted March 11, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 9 hours ago, ardbeg said: ... I would like to get one more and wanted suggestions on a lens with a rendering style that did not overlap with the above 3. Other random preferences — no “modern” rendering / asphericals (the 50 Lux is truly awesome but I prefer the look of the other two more). Doesn’t have to be a fast lens. Sharp is great but I will go for better microconstrast over pure sharpness. ... If you haven't already found it I recommend having a leisurely wander through The view through older glass thread.  This will show you pictures of how the lenses render rather than be confused by a multitude of well-meant recommendations from people who might have quite different, but entirely credible, tastes to your own. As it happens I have the same three lenses you do although mine is the Rigid Summicron rather than the DR model.  To not overlap with these three Double-Gauss designs with micro-contrast over biting sharpness I would recommend looking at some seasoned Sonnars.  James Liam mentioned the Nikkor Kogaku 50/1.4, which I would call a pseudo-Sonnar since it was Nikkor's copy of the Zeiss Sonnar, and is a very nice lens but not so easy to find in LTM.  I would suggest either the Carl Zeiss Jena 50/1.5 or/2 Sonnar or a Zeiss Opton 50/1.5 or/2 Sonnar but steer towards the Opton because there were far fewer convincing Russian fakes.  Either of these lenses will be very hard find in LTM (because very few were made) so a Contax to M adaptor from Amadeus Muscelli or from Kippon will be needed. The picture below is from my Carl Zeiss Jena 50/2 Sonnar with an Amadeus adaptor (the best adaptor available imo).  My apologies to those who might have seen this picture before. Good luck! Pete. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 11 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/307336-which-non-modern-rendering-50/?do=findComment&comment=3929621'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 11, 2020 Posted March 11, 2020 Hi farnz, Take a look here Which non-modern rendering 50?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted March 12, 2020 Share #22  Posted March 12, 2020 Summicron 50 collapsible. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/307336-which-non-modern-rendering-50/?do=findComment&comment=3929628'>More sharing options...
james.liam Posted March 12, 2020 Share #23  Posted March 12, 2020 6 hours ago, ardbeg said: Also, any thoughts on the CV 50 Heliar 3.5? That said, I am intrigued by the LTM suggestions but how hard are they to find in reasonably good condition? The new 3,5/50 Rigid is of the same optical formula as the old collapsible. A modern, high-resolution lens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 12, 2020 Share #24  Posted March 12, 2020 2 hours ago, pippy said: I'm intrigued by this lens, lct, and have been trying to find out a bit more info from those with experience of the 'old' and the 'new' versions. Would you say that it has the same underlying characteristics of the original Elmar-M but with the added advantage(?) of a shorter focus-throw and (possibly) more modern coatings? Any other major differences (infinity-lock focus tab apart)? The Elmar-M 50/2.8 has still four elements like the original Elmar but its barrel doesn't rotate when focusing anymore and it's been updated with high-refraction glass and a new optical computation in 1994. Was a special lens for the M6J then and its results on film were superb with less vignetting, less flare and more macro and micro contrast giving "a very pleasing, almost brittle rendition of very fine details" according to Erwin Puts. Since then the lens has become a regular model with no focus knob anymore and it received a flange with 6-bit coding in 2006 before being replaced by the Summarit 50/2.5 in 2007 or thereabouts. According to Marco Cavina (Google translation), "In 1994, for the celebratory model Leica M6J, a modern and now unexpected version of this lens was calculated from scratch, featuring a non-rotating focus frame, a large diameter front lens to contrast vignetting, by modern anti-glare and the adoption, for the front element, of a Dense Flint Lanthanum glass of exclusive Leitz design, type 808452, characterized by very high refraction (above 1.8) and relatively small dispersion (Abbe number 45, 2); this lens, put into regular production in 1995, guarantees remarkable performances, decidedly superior to those of the previous model, above all by contrast, chromatic brilliance and depth of shadows."http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/50mm_Leica_a_telemetro/00_pag.htm Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/307336-which-non-modern-rendering-50/?do=findComment&comment=3929643'>More sharing options...
james.liam Posted March 12, 2020 Share #25  Posted March 12, 2020 56 minutes ago, jdlaing said: Summicron 50 collapsible. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Where in tarnation did ya' find such a perfect sample? No haze or scratches to the front element?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted March 12, 2020 Share #26  Posted March 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, james.liam said: Where in tarnation did ya' find such a perfect sample? No haze or scratches to the front element?? No haze, no scratches, no oil on the blades. Focuses smoooooth.  I got lucky with a great price too 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted March 12, 2020 Share #27  Posted March 12, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 37 minutes ago, jdlaing said: No haze, no scratches, no oil on the blades. Focuses smoooooth.  I got lucky with a great price too Luck of the Texans. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted March 12, 2020 Share #28  Posted March 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Del-Uks said: To my experience Crons vers. II and vers. IV are two very different beast. On M10? I didn't find them to be very different on M-E and M4-2. One was sharper, another was with older colours. And it was it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del-Uks Posted March 12, 2020 Share #29  Posted March 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said: On M10? I didn't find them to be very different on M-E and M4-2. One was sharper, another was with older colours. And it was it. Yes, M10.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardbeg Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share #30  Posted March 12, 2020 To those suggesting an Elmar, any comparison comments between the 2.8 and 3.5? Also, I was perusing the “older glass” and other photo forums but any particularly representative photos of rendering style you can link to? Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted March 12, 2020 Share #31 Â Posted March 12, 2020 Putz cites lower overall contrast and sharpness of fine detail in the 3.5 version than the 2.8. That pretty much reflected my experience when I owned both. I did keep the 3.5 as I really like its rendering, both on film and digital. IMHO a really versatile classic lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 12, 2020 Share #32  Posted March 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, ardbeg said: To those suggesting an Elmar, any comparison comments between the 2.8 and 3.5? Also, I was perusing the “older glass” and other photo forums but any particularly representative photos of rendering style you can link to? Thank you. I have no experience with the 50/3.5 sorry, only Elmar 50/2.8 from 1962 and Elmar-M 50/2.8 from 1994 and 2006. Elmar 50/2.8 and Elmar-M 50/2.8 are not the same lens and have a different IQ. Just to take an example my Elmar matches well my Summaron 35/2.8 whereas my Elmar-M's match better my Biogon 35/2.8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 12, 2020 Share #33  Posted March 12, 2020  52 minutes ago, ardbeg said: To those suggesting an Elmar, any comparison comments between the 2.8 and 3.5? Also, I was perusing the “older glass” and other photo forums but any particularly representative photos of rendering style you can link to? Thank you. I only briefly had the modern 50/2.8 Elmar, which I felt was a little contrasty for my liking, but I've used the 50/3.5 Elmar for some years and like it very much. The picture below was taken with my IIIf and Red Scale 50/3.5 Elmar with Neopan Acros 100. Pete. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 17 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/307336-which-non-modern-rendering-50/?do=findComment&comment=3929907'>More sharing options...
james.liam Posted March 12, 2020 Share #34  Posted March 12, 2020 41 minutes ago, farnz said:  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Wonderful image but the boxed milk and plastic container on the table in the foreground blew the "image out of time". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 12, 2020 Share #35  Posted March 12, 2020 56 minutes ago, james.liam said: Wonderful image but the boxed milk and plastic container on the table in the foreground blew the "image out of time". Thanks.  I didn't notice the Tetra pack and Tupperware during the 5-second candid shot unfortunately.  I could have cloned them out during post processing but that doesn't gel with me. Pete. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradS Posted March 12, 2020 Share #36 Â Posted March 12, 2020 4 hours ago, farnz said: Thanks. Â I didn't notice the Tetra pack and Tupperware during the 5-second candid shot unfortunately. Â I could have cloned them out during post processing but that doesn't gel with me. Pete. Still a great photo. What's going on here...? What was the occasion? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 12, 2020 Share #37  Posted March 12, 2020 2 hours ago, BradS said: Still a great photo. What's going on here...? What was the occasion? It's called The Chap Olympiad where tweed, moustaches, bowler hats, braces, spats, and other fine attire from, say, the 1890's to the 1950's are worn and celebrated at an annual meeting in London run the The Chap Magazine where tongue-in-cheek, gentlemenly games are held such as brolly-jousting, butler-surfing, not-playing tennis, and wooing the lady.  Most people dress appropriately for the occasion, bring a picnic and spend the day getting quietly and humorously sozzled.  Patrons are extremely well-behaved and politeness is honoured above everything. Pete. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradS Posted March 12, 2020 Share #38  Posted March 12, 2020 Sounds like fun!  Thanks. 6 minutes ago, farnz said: It's called The Chap Olympiad where tweed, moustaches, bowler hats, braces, spats, and other fine attire from, say, the 1890's to the 1950's are worn and celebrated at an annual meeting in London run the The Chap Magazine where tongue-in-cheek, gentlemenly games are held such as brolly-jousting, butler-surfing, not-playing tennis, and wooing the lady.  Most people dress appropriately for the occasion, bring a picnic and spend the day getting quietly and humorously sozzled.  Patrons are extremely well-behaved and politeness is honoured above everything. Pete.  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardbeg Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share #39  Posted March 13, 2020 I found a Hektor in good condition. Going to give that a try. Thank you for all the great input. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 13, 2020 Share #40  Posted March 13, 2020 4 hours ago, ardbeg said: I found a Hektor in good condition. Going to give that a try. Thank you for all the great input. Please keep us posted once it arrives. I, for one, would be very interested to hear your thoughts. And +1 for your titular twin being a seriously nice malt... Philip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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