How robust is the rangefinder mechanism against jolts / bumps

[Stevejack]

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To those who have owned and used rangefinders for many years / decades - how robust is the mechanism in terms of losing calibration..?

I very often carry my camera gear in motorcycle panniers and have never really thought about it... mirrorless cameras and DSLRs are pretty hardy.  But how does the rangefinder focusing system cope with jolts and bumps, is it easy for it to get out of calibration on an off-road journey?

The camera will always be inside a bag, which is inside an aluminium hard pannier (so it's not going to suffer a direct impact) but it's not uncommon for the bike to tip over at low speed in mud, or be jolted over ruts which would be fairly jarring.

Probably silly to ask, because I know that for many decades people have carried their rangefinders on all sorts of journeys so I assume the mechanism is able to hold calibration very well.

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[a.noctilux]

In my experiences not universally admitted that the M are more or less robust.

Motorcycle travelling with my M and R without special precautions, in film days, they never had any RF problems.

My first RF out of cal while travelling was with my M8 (also with my wife's M8).

They were transported on the tank bag for simple access of our flat-twin as 'usual' (film photo gear style) and vibrations had done the rest.

 

Now since we took some simple tricks to lessen vibrations (towel wrap, and rubber or thick 2cm foam between the tank and the photo gear),

never had to complain RF uncal.

Anyway, I learned how to do the 'RF cal in the field' with 2mm hex key.

Never had to use the 2mm hex on M10 RF mechanism, though.

Edited February 25, 2020 by a.noctilux

[tobey bilek]

Being A---- retentive,  wrap in bubble wrap and put into a nice heavy camera bag.   Will protect from road shock,  but not collisions.   

[pippy]

I would definitely recommend you utilise something soft / shock absorbing to minimise jarring. Wrapping (not-too-tightly) in a towel, low-tech as it may sound, would work well. Carrying a 2mm hex-key, as also suggested by a.noctilux, is always a good idea if going out and about but it's not just the rangefinder cam which might become knocked out of whack by constant vibration and bumping around.

The rangefinders on Leicas are superbly engineered - and fairly sturdily assembled - items but, still, they are very complex pieces of precision gear and should be accorded all due respect.

Philip.

[TomB_tx]

I’ve used Leica M cameras for over 50 years, and never had an RF go out of adjustment until the M9. DAG adjusted it, and it has been fine since then. I’ve used M 2,3,4,5,6,9, & 10 and film CL (with RF).

I also collect film era SLRs, and find slight focus problems fairly common with them if you look closely. (Usually due to mirror alignment and focusing screen positioning.)

[jakontil]

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

In my experiences not universally admitted that the M are more or less robust.

Motorcycle travelling with my M and R without special precautions, in film days, they never had any RF problems.

My first RF out of cal while travelling was with my M8 (also with my wife's M8).

They were transported on the tank bag for simple access of our flat-twin as 'usual' (film photo gear style) and vibrations had done the rest.

 

Now since we took some simple tricks to lessen vibrations (towel wrap, and rubber or thick 2cm foam between the tank and the photo gear),

never had to complain RF uncal.

Anyway, I learned how to do the 'RF cal in the field' with 2mm hex key.

Never had to use the 2mm hex on M10 RF mechanism, though.

Hi, you reckon the RF mechanism on m10 more robust under your situation and condition? 

[Hey You]

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I dropped mine from from chest high on to a concrete floor.  

The impact broke the latch on the baseplate, but the rangefinder stayed in alignment.

YMMV

[jaapv]

The latest versions , since the M240, are much more shock-resistant. Even then, it took a fairly hefty slap on the bottom to dislodge the vertical adjustment. Strong vibration were detrimental as well. I think the trouble ( if one can call it trouble-It still took quite some doing to decalibrate the rangefinder) started with the redesign of the rangefinder on the M6 or M6TTL. 

[Rob L]

I echo what everybody else said. They are not that delicate! But I would not put mine in the panniers if you are doing "Adventure touring", I would use a back pack, camera bag or tank bag instead. Also definitely learn how to make the adjustment. The infinity adjustment is super easy. The vertical is a little more trouble, especially if you have the peal and stick dot rather than a screw, but still not hard.

[davidmknoble]

I would only add, after using film and digital Leica bodies since 2000, that digital bodies have the added key of the sensor plane in addition to the focusing mechanism.  Film has a thickness and so a little off plane in the back still works.  Digital has zero tolerance for that.  

So, as others have said, working using, putting in a car seat, no trouble.  If is in something that jolts as much as a motorcycle, a case is easy precaution as time is the worst enemy for repairs.  I love the artist and artisan body pouch and lens pouch.  Small, fit two bodies or two lenses (2 different models) and have room for moisture control boxes.  I use them for small kits to throw in a duffel or soft case if my bag is full of other stuff. 

Link to see: (body)  https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/small-cases-and-inserts/products/artisan-artist-acam-60n-camera-body-pouch?variant=43917829264
(lens) https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/small-cases-and-inserts/products/artisan-artist-acam-61n-lens-pouch?variant=43917829328

There are others I have not tried.  These have thick padding, red on inside to see and a mesh zipper pocket on inside zipper hinged lid, so I can put lens cloths, sdcards, filters, etc. in there.

Hope this helps!

[jankap]

It is long ago, but a good statement. I had my military service in Oegstgeest. In 1961 my service in the Royal Dutch Navy ended and I could go back home to Rotterdam (around 50 km). Navy personal transport their goods in a sea bag. My bag - with the IIf inside - made the trip back home via the dutch aircraft carrier, that was in the Mediterranean Sea at that time. The transport by military tranport means can be very rough. The rangefinder of the camera still was in a good condition as the camera arrived in Rotterdam. It has lasted a long time until I came to the Mediterranean Sea!

Edited February 25, 2020 by jankap

[jakontil]

I once dropped my m10-p from a couch to a concrete below, bout 50cm height? 
the RF alignment was fine, body check was oke

 

but internally it was problem, touch screen started to malfunction, shipped back to leica, was told something was broken inside without describing further

[andyturk]

I carried my M8 on a 40,000 trip around the Americas and it was fine. The camera lived in a small Domke bag that lived inside an aluminum pannier. The rangefinder has never been adjusted and is still fine. My profile photo was taken with that camera on Salar de Uyuni in Bolivia. I only crashed a few times, however. YMMV.

Many years ago I carried a Canon DSLR in a well padded camera bag, usually around my waist. The buckle opened on one ride, and the bag hit the pavement at about 70mph. The outer nylon of the camera bag melted on the corners from friction. Amazingly, the camera and lens were just fine, and I used them for a couple of years with issues.

Then I took a grip to Death Valley with the same camera and bag. On that trip, I had the bag in a top case on the back of the bike. Two hours of washboard completely destroyed both camera and lens. It was entirely my own fault though. These days, if I'm riding on washboard with a camera, I'll find some way to carry it on my body instead.

 

[otto.f]

I can only say that I once had a vertical disalignment with still good focusing caused by a fall from 80cm on a stone floor at the airport during inspection of my MM1. That was once in 30 years time over all kinds of M’s and a lot of travels. I often took my M4 or M9 in a waistpack when skating, skiing or racebiking. 

[PCPix]

I've used M2, M6, M262 and M10 - all carried exactly as you describe (in a bag in a metal pannier)... on R100GS. Full trans-Africa, India, Morrocco...etc. Lots and lots of corrugated gravel roads, occasional falls, lost of dust, never a problem (I might just be lucky)

Occasionally do an infinity check - if something is going to go out, you will see it then. And carry the 2mm precision Allen key, as mentioned previously (for the more recent digital bodies).... takes up no space and will fix the problem. Earlier bodies need a bent screwdriver (!)

Remember: Full throttle, keep it on the back wheel 😉

[thighslapper]

The later M's ...... post M9 when the rangefinder mechanism was improved ...... have some form of loctite on the near adjustment screw below the lens aperture that needs dissolving with solvent before adjustment, so theoretically that should not shift as easily as in prior models. The Infinity adjustment is unchanged as far as I am aware, but that is easily adjusted with an allen key if it is the only one that is off. The vertical image adjustment used to need the funny roller gadget, but that isn't critical to focussing itself.

The main problem is sorting out whether it's mainly a lens or rangefinder problem if you think things are miscalibrated ..... and the more lenses you have the more confusing the situation becomes. 

It's one of the main reasons I gave up with the M series and moved to the SL/CL. Any vagaries in M lens optical adjustment become irrelevant with a mirrorless camera. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by thighslapper

[Stevejack]

Thanks everyone for the great replies. I'll definitely take precautions trying to pad the camera a little more inside the pannier. 

I don't really want to wear the camera in a backpack (coming off is never that fun if you're wearing the camera on your body), but I can probably put the camera in the top pannier rather than the side panniers to keep it more out of harms way. I haven't used a tank bag in years, partly because the hard cases are good for security when I want to stop in a town somewhere, but I might look into another tank bag for some trips. 

Just as thighslapper mentioned, the mirrorless systems are straightforward with the focus being determined on the sensor itself... the mechanical rangefinder link is another thing to go wrong, but by all accounts in this thread they are fairly hardy. 

Cheers all, great advice. 

[jaapv]

On 2/26/2020 at 1:03 PM, thighslapper said:

The later M's ...... post M9 when the rangefinder mechanism was improved ...... have some form of loctite on the near adjustment screw below the lens aperture that needs dissolving with solvent before adjustment, so theoretically that should not shift as easily as in prior models. The Infinity adjustment is unchanged as far as I am aware, but that is easily adjusted with an allen key if it is the only one that is off. The vertical image adjustment used to need the funny roller gadget, but that isn't critical to focussing itself.

The main problem is sorting out whether it's mainly a lens or rangefinder problem if you think things are miscalibrated ..... and the more lenses you have the more confusing the situation becomes. 

It's one of the main reasons I gave up with the M series and moved to the SL/CL. Any vagaries in M lens optical adjustment become irrelevant with a mirrorless camera. 

The latest types, M240 onwards, have an improved RF mechanism which uses an eccentric screw to adjust vertically, even more shock-proof.

As for sorting a miscalibrated system - it is routine, not only for Leica, but the independents as well. It is just a matter of adjusting the lenses separately from the body to the common standard.

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