90mm Elmarit version I images?

[tedd]

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Hi guys,

As mentioned in my other thread, I recently purchased a 90mm Elmarit version I (serial dates it to 1970). I bought this without doing enough research and thinking it was the same as the 1990 version (spoiler: it's not!). I have Googled my brains out trying to find image samples of this lens, but my search is proving a bit fruitless. Does anyone here have one and, if so, have any images that they would like to share? 

I am also planning on getting an M262 very shortly (to compliment my M6) and was wondering if I could code this lens for digital? Or is it too old/not worth it?

Thanks!

[lct]

Haven' use this lens for many years sorry. Very good lens, superbly made, very little distortion but it is softer than v2 i was advising at f/2.8 and f/4. Its optical cell is detachable (pic) for use with film Visoflex.

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[pgk]

I haven't used one for a number of years either. However its performance is by no means bad but as let says it is softer at wide apertures. The 1990 Elmarit-M is my goto 90mm lensed is an excellent performer and capable of great results. Earlier versions produce very acceptable images most of the time but lack the wider-aperture performance of the Elmarit-M. Posting photos at reduced size on the web may struggle to reply show significant differences although in large prints there would be a viewable difference.

[UliWer]

The examples in the link were taken with the 90mm Elmarit (first Version) - mostly at f/2.8: https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/195531-klümchenbuden-kioske-getränke-buden-trinkhallen/?do=findComment&comment=2273977

[a.noctilux]

I second Paul (pgk) that seeing reduced sizes on web screen would not show differences between lenses rendering.

 

I can add that the Elmarit 90mm is as good as more modern lenses (Leica or not).

Years ago, I've sold the Summicron-M 90mm of same period as I used the Cron less and had the 90mm Tele-Elmarit and Elmarit to play with.

When you have one, take a look at the "roundest" aperture blades which is very near the front lens.

I think this can help to reduce flare with nice and pleasing out of focus areas.

[tedd]

Thank you! Looks to me like it is a bit soft (my current long lens is a Canon 135/f2 L) but maybe that will be "flattering" for portraits and hopefully more usable stopped down. If not, Leica gear is easy enough to sell at least and I can grab a 90's example. Thanks again!

[adan]

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I've only tried the 90 Elmarit (I) a few times.

Never owned one, since examples I tried usually either had haze, or focus-adjustment problems (the minimum age at this point is 46 years - last produced in 1974, replaced 1974-1991 by the Tele-Elmarit-M, and then by the Elmarit-M (II)).

At any rate, it thus mostly preceded the wide introduction of multi-coating in the 1970s, and has a cooler, bluer color rendering (typical of most 1960s Leica lenses, especially those of Wetzlar design). Both of which can make it look duller and softer (in the sense of contrast). Personally, I think the Tele-Elmarit-M is noticeably sharper and contrastier (but has its own flaws), which is probably why Leica simply dropped the Elmarit (I) altogether.

In his Leica Lens Compendium, Erwin Puts describes the Elmarit (I) this way (in paraphrase): Wide-open, medium contrast, renders coarse details well, but finest details well only in the center. At f/4, overall contrast boost. Needs f/5.6 to bring out the finest details, and f/8 to extend that performance all the way to the corners. "For best close-up performance, one should [also] stop down a few stops."

Conversely, he descibes the Elmarit-M (II) in this way: "At full aperture, overall contrast is high, and very fine detail is crisply rendered, with only a trace of color fringing and astigmatism, over the whole picture area.....close-up performance is as good as infinity."

The version 2 is a whole different animal, sharing only the "Elmarit" name.

My local shop has (unless it sold in the past couple of days) a version (I) - I can try to extract some samples from that.

In the meantime, for comparison with your lens, here is a shot from the version II (f/2.8, crop for detail, plus fullframe inset).

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[tommonego@gmail.com]

Early 60's Elmarit 1, bought it for less than $100, said there was an internal scratch that ended up being a hair. Had it cleaned by Youxin Yee, on my M8.

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[spydrxx]

I've had the lens for about 10 years...purchased primarily for using its removable head on a Visoflex as well as several of my digital cameras. As far as its rendering, since you already have it, and presumably use it, that should tell you whether you want to keep it or not. Others' use is probably different than yours, so I question the value of looking at their shots.

[tedd]

43 minutes ago, spydrxx said:

I've had the lens for about 10 years...purchased primarily for using its removable head on a Visoflex as well as several of my digital cameras. As far as its rendering, since you already have it, and presumably use it, that should tell you whether you want to keep it or not. Others' use is probably different than yours, so I question the value of looking at their shots.

I haven't got it yet! I bought on eBay a few days ago thinking that it was the same as the version 2, but obviously it isn't. It should arrive in a week or two. 

 

1 hour ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

Early 60's Elmarit 1, bought it for less than $100, said there was an internal scratch that ended up being a hair. Had it cleaned by Youxin Yee, on my M8.

 

That is the cleanest example that I have seen, was this wide open? Bokeh is a little nervous but the plant looks nice. I guess the M8 has an advantage of cutting the corners off here too. Thanks!

3 hours ago, adan said:

I've only tried the 90 Elmarit (I) a few times.

Never owned one, since examples I tried usually either had haze, or focus-adjustment problems (the minimum age at this point is 46 years - last produced in 1974, replaced 1974-1991 by the Tele-Elmarit-M, and then by the Elmarit-M (II)).

At any rate, it thus mostly preceded the wide introduction of multi-coating in the 1970s, and has a cooler, bluer color rendering (typical of most 1960s Leica lenses, especially those of Wetzlar design). Both of which can make it look duller and softer (in the sense of contrast). Personally, I think the Tele-Elmarit-M is noticeably sharper and contrastier (but has its own flaws), which is probably why Leica simply dropped the Elmarit (I) altogether.

In his Leica Lens Compendium, Erwin Puts describes the Elmarit (I) this way (in paraphrase): Wide-open, medium contrast, renders coarse details well, but finest details well only in the center. At f/4, overall contrast boost. Needs f/5.6 to bring out the finest details, and f/8 to extend that performance all the way to the corners. "For best close-up performance, one should [also] stop down a few stops."

Conversely, he descibes the Elmarit-M (II) in this way: "At full aperture, overall contrast is high, and very fine detail is crisply rendered, with only a trace of color fringing and astigmatism, over the whole picture area.....close-up performance is as good as infinity."

The version 2 is a whole different animal, sharing only the "Elmarit" name.

My local shop has (unless it sold in the past couple of days) a version (I) - I can try to extract some samples from that.

In the meantime, for comparison with your lens, here is a shot from the version II (f/2.8, crop for detail, plus fullframe inset).

 

You are an absolute wealth of knowledge. Thank you for taking the time to answer all my threads with so much effort and detail! I'll buy you a beer (and get more Leica talk) from you ever visit Australia. 

[UliWer]

At f/5.6:

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Crop:

[UliWer]

At f/2.8

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Crop:

[pgk]

Its really difficult to judge on web images but the last two posts do show the lower contrast and poor shadow detail which I would associate with an older lens with less effective coating. Detail is not possible to judge but my copies showed performance as described by Puts. By no means a bad lens but simply not up to the Elmarit-M's performance.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

1 hour ago, tedd said:

That is the cleanest example that I have seen, was this wide open? Bokeh is a little nervous but the plant looks nice. I guess the M8 has an advantage of cutting the corners off here too. Thanks!

No probably f5.6, I'd have to find the file to be sure. I am from the era that you never used the wide open setting. More of an f4-8 guy. Comes from large format photography where I generally used f16-32. This was close to the minimum focusing distance for the lens.

Edited February 25, 2020 by tommonego@gmail.com

[adan]

Let's put it this way - every "great photographer" from the 1960s took great pictures with, probably, the 90 Elmarit (1).

It may have been the lens used to take the iconic portrait of Che Guevara (soon to be on millions of revolutionary T-shirts near you - and a Leica brochure cover about 20 years ago).

http://leicaphilia.com/for-sale-the-leica-that-didnt-take-the-famous-photo-of-che-guevara/

Costa Manos, Cartier-Bresson (yes, he did occasionally use other lenses than a 50), Elliott Erwitt, Marc Riboud, and so on.

Such as one of my all-time favorite Erwitt sequences (first three shots here) - of a dog expressing his opinion of a sidewalk campaign by US politician Nelson Rockefeller:

https://pro.magnumphotos.com/CS.aspx?VP3=SearchResult&VBID=2K1HZOB83H6Y_V

Or pretty much anything that seems to have a long-lens perspective or situation in Manos' A Greek Portfolio (one of my formative influences):

https://constantinemanos.com/a-greek-portfolio-greece-1962-63/#

Or similarly, longer-perspective shots by Marc Riboud in China:

http://photographyofchina.com/blog/marc-riboud

...but it is a lens from a different era and look than your 50mm Summicron v.4/5.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by adan

[pgk]

We’ve had ‘good’ lenses for a very long time. It’s usually us who are the limiting factor. However having owned all 3 lenses I have to say that the Elmarit-M is the one I prefer for a number of reasons including optical performance, physical design and ergonomics. But this is a personal choice and others will feel differently.

[tedd]

Finally landed the lens and took it out to snap a couple of pics of the dog on my M240. First off, 90mm/2.8 is HARD with a rangefinder (for me) so I don't think I'll ever need a 'Cron at this focal length. I found composing a bit tricky too, but I guess I'll get used to both composing and focusing and hopefully before too long it's just as natural as it is with my 5D3!

It does flair pretty badly in direct light but it should do until I move on my Canon kit and then maybe I'll sell it off and buy an Elmarit-M. For those who've used both, is the focus throw any shorter on the more modern lens? Thanks!

Examples below at both f2.8 and f8.

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[DwF]

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This comes from my "fat" Tele which works nicely on my M9M.  The "fat" tele is the one I've settled on after having the V1, the Thin, and Elmarit-M.  I do have a soft spot for the V1, it draws renders beautifully, and feels good to use on the M bodies. I am not sure anyone addressed your coding the lens for the M262; I also have one and use my 90 un-coded. My understanding is that correction for focal length beyond 35mm it is not a big deal.

Enjoy your lens,

David

[lct]

5 hours ago, tedd said:

It does flair pretty badly in direct light but it should do until I move on my Canon kit and then maybe I'll sell it off and buy an Elmarit-M. For those who've used both, is the focus throw any shorter on the more modern lens? Thanks!

Both Elmarit 90/2.8 v1 & v2 have a long focus throw. For a shorter one, see the Summarit-M 90/2.4, the Macro-Elmar-M 90/4 or the very good and affordable M-Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE.

Edited March 15, 2020 by lct

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Hallo,

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