28mm and 90mm to compliment 50mm 'Cron v5?

[tedd]

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Hi guys,

I bought an M6 two years ago to try out a rangefinder and went through a range of Zeiss lenses before finally settling on a 1994 v5 Summicron that I got for a reasonable enough price. I'm soon to add an M262 to my stable and would like to round out my M glass with a 28mm and 90mm (selling off most of my SLR gear). I was going to buy a used, modern 28mm Elmarit but I have read a lot of people say that they border on clinical, and I'd really love to keep the same feel between all three lenses if possible. Is the large v4 Elmarit a good way to go? Are there any others that I'm possibly not considering? I don't even know where to start with the 90mm. Budget is not unlimited and the 50 will no doubt be my most used lens.

All suggestions appreciated! Thanks! 

[105012]

Everyone will have their own favourites, if you want light and small, then consider Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 ‘thin’ and CV 28/3.5. You will get different suggestions, but these will always be handy...

[rramesh]

One lens kit - any one lens.

Two lens kit - any two lenses.

Three lens kit - any three lenses.

And you will get a lot of compliments with your choice.

[Ouroboros]

If you use filters, it might be useful to add 28mm & 90mm lenses that use the same 39mm filter thread as your 50mm summicron. The two current ones are 28mm elmarit asph and 90mm macro elmar-m.  That will give you a very nice compact set for your M6.

Don’t let silly forum comments about the 28mm elmarit Asaph being ‘too clinical’ influence your decision. It’s a great little lens, I just prefer the 28mm summaron because it’s even smaller and does have a recognisable character.  Whether anyone looking at my prints would see that is of no concern to me. 
 

 

[AndreasG]

28 and 90mm are good supplements to a 50 Summicron. I keep an old 90mm Elmarit, bought around 1987 second hand, it is still fine. For the 28mm lenses, I own both the old Mandler design V3 and the first ASPH version, they are different, but none is "better", just different. Meanwhile I prefer the ASPH version - it is so small compared with the old version and fits better into the pocket.

[lct]

Better choose lenses from the same design period i.e. pre-asph lenses. Not to say that the current Elmarit 28/2.8 asph would be a mismatch but it has more acutance hence the feeling of being somewhat more "clinical". I would probably choose an Elmarit-M 28/2.8 v4 (code # 11809) for this reason but take what i say with a lump of salt as i have no experience with this lens. Same idea for the 90 with less hesitation as i do have the lens: Elmarit-M 90/2.8 v2 (11807). See pics and specs below.

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LeicaM_2828_11809_specs.pdf

LeicaM_9028_11807_Technical_specs.pdf

[pippy]

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LCT's advice about the two same-period lenses he suggests is a very good point if you wish to have similar rendering. Both lenses are still superb performers even when put up against newer designs.

OTOH I'm another who would recommend the 28mm f2.8 asph Elmarit. I chose the 11606 version simply because even with the hood on it's really tiny and takes 39mm filters. The newer version (11677) has a better hood but it's quite a bit bigger.

As far as the 90mm goes for decades I used to swear by the 1974-1990 'thin' f2.8 Tele-Elmarit-M. Great performer, tiny, light and, once again, takes 39mm filters. A word of caution though; some folks have encountered problems with flare using this version (though for some unknown reason I don't) so best try one out before you buy. Nowdays I much prefer to use my 90mm Summarit but it's larger than the T-E by some margin. Some users complain about the build-quality of the Summarits - the "rubber-band focus ring" seems to come in for particular criticism - but in use it actually has a better grip than the old-fashioned milled-metal thing...........🙂..........no-one, however, has complained about the optics which are simply fantastic.

Philip.

[evikne]

Unfortunately there isn't many small wide angle lenses to choose among from that design period. But if you could do with a 35mm instead, the 35mm Summicron pre-ASPH v4 is a great choice. 

[TomB_tx]

37 minutes ago, evikne said:

Unfortunately there isn't many small wide angle lenses to choose among from that design period. But if you could do with a 35mm instead, the 35mm Summicron pre-ASPH v4 is a great choice. 

Indeed - 35, 50, & 90 are the traditional RF trio: easy to use with most viewfinders, while 28 is hard to see for eyeglass wearers. I use 35 & 50 Summicrons along with a v1. Tele-Elmarit from 1969 up until 2010 or so, They were my only M lenses.

[a.noctilux]

Tedd,

you would have many valuable answers here for the very large choices you can have in 28/90 lenses.

In your place, I would take another view:

- not complimenting as a kit 28/50/90 which can be a nice kit anyway as all kind of kit

- look at your "outing" kit, if you want only one or two lenses while the other(s) lens(es) can stay home

- in kit (for one or two lenses "outing" ), I'd recommend the Summarit-M lens line 35/50/75/90 plus the nice outsider Elmarit-M 2.8/28mm asph.

- as light "kit" M + one or two Summarit-M to choose from the line

 

I'm (was) long time user of big/heavy/king-of-light-gathering lenses in M (Noctilux/Summilux/etc.),

now I'm happier with small/light/cheap Summarit-M, Elmarit-M 28 asph., ...even ...

Summaron-M 28 and carrying only M+one lens is so liberating and my percentage of "keeper pictures" improves a lot.

...

As today, I had used only my beloved Summarit-M 2.5/50, while I had a small bag (can be put in a pocket also)

with Elmarit-M 28mm asph. and one old Elmarit 90mm (these two not used at all today), choices for E39 color filters

using with my Monochrom M246.

 

Arnaud

[adan]

LCT beat me to it.

The current v.4/5 non-APO 50 Summicron (designed optically around 1980) is a transitional lens, with some characteristics of Walter Mandler's other 1980-era Leitz/Canada lenses, but with a more modern color rendition (slightly pinker) and a bit more contrast (modern coatings).

The only two other M lenses that fit into that same transitional  "look" and approach are the 90 Elmarit-M (designed 1980 as an SLR lens, and "ported" to M mount in 1990) - and the 28 Elmarit-M v.4 (introduced 1993).

(Fun fact: Leica introduced no new M lens designs at all between 1980 and 1990 - they were focused (hah!) on upgrading the R lenses during that decade. And were also busy closing the old original-Wetzlar/Canadian factories and setting up the new one in Solms.)

BTW - at the time, the 28 v.4 was the smallest M 28mm ever made (46mm filter size). It is the Canadian v.3 (1980 - 49mm filters) that is "large." (But quite good).

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/28mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-M_III

There is one other option for a 90 that would somewhat fit that look - the 90mm f/2.5 Summarit (2007). Because it is borrows heavily from the 1980 90 Summicron-M design, with some tweaks, and has the color and contrast of the Elmarit-M.

 

[smkoush]

I have an MP (for 15 years) and more recently (last year) an M-P (240). 28 and 90 are great compliments to the 50v5. 

I had the 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH for few years before I replaced it with the 28mm Summicron-M ASPH. Fantastic lens on film (as well as on the M-P), couldn't be happier with it, and it is my preferred lens when I travel with only one lens. 

For 90 I love the Macro-Elmar-M, I never use it as a Macro lens, but at f/4 it is a stunning lens (and only gets better as you stop down). I tried the Summicron-M ASPH, didn't like it, too big for my taste. Tried the Elmarit-M, I found it not special at all. The rendering of the macro-elmar is amazing. 

These are three lenses from three different eras (50v5, 28/2 and 90/4) but I don't see that as a problem. They all work complimentary to each other, and things get even more interesting when I throw in the 35mm summilux pre-asph with its unique rendering. 

[Stein K S]

Hi

 

I fully support both ITC post 6 and adan post 11 on the 28 Elmarit-M v4 and the 90 Elmarit-M. I have both... and also the Cron 50 v5 and they all fit so nicely. Had the 28 Elmarit-M asph and never even started to like it.

 

And at least the 90 should be rather avaiable at reasonable price... the 28 I am more uncertain about.

 

Regards,

[pgk]

let and Adan sum up the 'best' choice and I would fully agree with them both. That said I have limited experience of the 28mm v.4 as 28mm is not one of my favourite focal length, but it is pretty typical in performance of the designs of its time so if you like 28mm lenses, it would compliment the 50 you have and also the 90mm Elmarit-M (which I use in preference to any other 90mm). These three would give you a very decent set of lenses.

[tom0511]

I would buy a 28 Summicron and a 90 Summarit/2.4.

[ardbeg]

I too recommend the 28 / 50 / 90 split from a coverage standpoint. While they are heavy (particularly the v1 which I own), I am a big fan of the older, pre-ASPH 90 Summicrons due to their more classic rendering (and reasonable price point). In the 28 space, if you are looking beyond Leica lenses, I recently acquired a Voigtlander 28 / 1.9 screw mount, the rendering of which I am also a big fan.

[wizard]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb tom0511:

I would buy a 28 Summicron ...

+1. I once had the Elmarit 2.8/28 v4, and sold it in favor of the Summicron 2/28 asph v1. The Summicron 28 isn't any bigger, but has f2 and renders simply beautifully. It goes well with the Summicron 50 v5, which I also own. The Elmarit 28 v4 isn't a bad lens, but given it is the same size as the Summicron, I'd rather take the latter.

Regarding 90mm, I concur with LCT. The Elmarit-M 2.8/90 is a great lens (one of my most used 90mm lenses).

[james.liam]

On 2/12/2020 at 5:00 AM, AndreasG said:

28 and 90mm are good supplements to a 50 Summicron. I keep an old 90mm Elmarit, bought around 1987 second hand, it is still fine. For the 28mm lenses, I own both the old Mandler design V3 and the first ASPH version, they are different, but none is "better", just different. Meanwhile I prefer the ASPH version - it is so small compared with the old version and fits better into the pocket.

The CV 3,5/28 may be more "period concordant" for the M6 and really, really, really small. Other "character lens" options from the time include the Rokkor M 28/3.5 LTM, Kobelux/Avenon 28/3.5 LTM and Ricoh 28/2.8 LTM. 

In re: 28 Elmarits, this "clinical" crap I just don't get. The previous 28 Elmarit ASPH is plenty tiny and is just a fantastic chunk of glass corner-to-corner. As for 90s, am with "LCT" about the 90 Elmarit. Great sleeper lens that's rising in price because it's recognized belatedly for its excellence. You might also consider the Konica 90/2.8 or Minolta Rokkor M 90/2.8 as alternatives.

[105012]

23 minutes ago, james.liam said:

... or Minolta Rokkor M 90/2.8 as alternatives.

Small point: I believe this lens is an f/4.0 (at least, I’ve not heard of a 2.8 variation). 

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[lct]

M-Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE. Great little lens indeed. Similar rendition as the Elmar-C 90/4 with less flare. Matches well the Summicron 50/2 v5 too. Same for the M-Rokkor 28/2.8 BTW.

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Edited February 13, 2020 by lct