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Any digital camera if pushed high enough in ISO will show what are inaptly called "stains" in this thread.  A $50,000 Phase One IQ4 system, currently the highest performing sensor on record in terms of both dynamic range and low-light (high-ISO) performance on photonstophotos.net will also show imaging artifacts—I know because I once shot a friend's very lively wedding reception in near total darkness with an IQ4 and once I pushed the photos to > ISO 100,000-ish, I saw distinct bands and other bizarre artifacts.  Did I ask Phase One for a replacement?  No, I simply realized I had reached the limit of how far I could push these images.  There is nothing out-of-spec with your M10-P.  Properly expose your images and enjoy your camera.

Edited by onasj
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vor einer Stunde schrieb Patrick90:

This brand new M10P shows also a bunch of stains on the sensor !

Does it do so if the image is correctly or at least nearly correctly exposed? And what ISO are we talking about? Please show some examples for others to judge.

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Thank you Fallancer. According to the exif data of your raw file, your pic has been shot at 16,000 iso. Then if you pushed it by three stops in PP it is equivalent to a 128,000 iso pic which is far beyond the Leica specs (50,000 iso). It is not the case at +1 stop though so if you can see significant stains then you would have a claim against Leica. 

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1 hour ago, Fallancer said:

For anyone looking for the RAW picture, here is the link.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y0ixmrpgzbaywof/AAAyifBW1dSu56ZZoLeUAlkia?dl=0

Slightly increasing the exposure you will see those stains very clearly.

I also sent the RAW to Leica engineer and yet got a response.

Thanks for sharing; I just analyzed your file.  You shot it at ISO 16,000.  Adobe says the image is 2.50 stops underexposed (so properly exposed it is ISO 90,510). Amazingly, at ISO 90,510, I still don't see the "stains" (blobs).  They *do* appear when I push the exposure of your image to ~+2.7-3 stops (which corresponds to ISO >100,000).  Importantly, the blobs appear at almost the exact same exposure as unacceptable (to me) levels of horizontal banding, so I don't think the blobs would make any usable images unusable.  The blobs also look suspiciously like oil spots to me.

Therefore:

1) I only see the spots at ISO 100,000+, around the same ISO when ugly horizontal banding appears.

2) I wonder if the blobs come from oil spots (I assume from factory testing, assuming this was a new camera?).

 

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  • 3 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

after I received the replaced CMOS,i find that the new CMOS has the same problem. I contact Leica customer care, they reply me I have to change another new cmos.

the attached files are "before" and "after"(it seems better than before but the oil dot is not acceptable)

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As a pure long shot I don't suppose you are using Lightrooms Flat Field tool are you? It's just that Sean Reid in his latest review of using older Nikon 28mm lenses on a Nikon Z7 body got very similar purple blotches when using the latest Adobe tool, and the blotches went away when using an older plugin version of the tool. This ruled out the camera and lenses as being the cause. If you have access to his site the effect is shown on page 5 of his latest review.

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4 hours ago, 250swb said:

As a pure long shot I don't suppose you are using Lightrooms Flat Field tool are you? It's just that Sean Reid in his latest review of using older Nikon 28mm lenses on a Nikon Z7 body got very similar purple blotches when using the latest Adobe tool, and the blotches went away when using an older plugin version of the tool.

I managed to reproduce the blobs with PSCS9 and Adobe Camera Raw - and with no option of a flat-field tool at all. See post #55.

However, to get these blobs requires operator error, in both camera exposure and post processing, equivalent to driving one's automobile into a concrete wall at 100kph. And then complaining about bent metal.

I'm not bothering to send my M10 in for a new sensor - or even test its black-chrome brother - because it has no practical meaning for competent photographers.

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I'm not saying it isn't operator error, operator error is what I believe this is, which is why I called it a long shot. If Sean Reid who bases his whole web site around standardised processing to compare lenses and cameras can discover similar purple blotches unexpectedly then it may just be worth asking if there is any more exotic error going on other than poor exposure and post processing skills.

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This entire conversation is a waste. Fear not, your Nikon D850 super shooter will also fail if pushed beyond manufacturer specifications to this degree. I can’t even think of a good reason why one would be doing this. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

My take away from this discussion is that the [terrible] banding that I saw wth the M8 + M240 almost does not occur with the M10

- although I am considering an M10 occasion and this does scare me a bit just as does reported upstart problems . . 

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On 1/22/2020 at 7:18 AM, onasj said:

The M10(P)'s sensor dust self-diagnosis is MUCH less sensitive than is needed to ensure there is no visible dust in photos.  In other words, the self-diagnosis can read clean but you see lots of dust spots in your photos.  I use a blower first (filtered), then if many blower passes (~10-20) don't do the trick, I use an eyelead gel stick (sticky blob on a stick). And only if both of those fail do I wet clean (which usually takes me an hour to get it just right).  A bright headlamp with eye magnifiers will help.

Exactly what I do. In 20 years of shooting digital cameras (Nikon, Canon, Leica) I've never owned one that didn't require occasional sensor cleaning. It's fast, easy and effective when done properly. It's also cost effective to clean your own sensor. A good cleaning kit can be purchased for less than $100. Getting your sensor cleaned at a dealer's shop will generally run around $75 each time.

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  • 1 year later...

Hi. Forgive me for my poor English.
I noticed similar stains on my M10. They appear at high ISO and low light. They are visible even without pushing the EV. I have the impression that they get bigger with time. In the photos from a few years ago, they are half the size. Interestingly, they don't appear in every photo. For example, I am attaching two screens with frames taken several seconds apart. (A blur in one of the photos does not affect the problem.) I also took some photos at ISO 50,000 and there are no spots on any of them. Well, it looks like the Leica M10 is not a camera for taking photos at night. The M9 still remains my favorite Leica camera. Best wishes.

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