Patrick90 Posted February 15, 2020 Share #61 Posted February 15, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, Finally i got yesterday a brand new M10P as exchange. On top of that my dealer gave me a free thumb rest, an accessory i was planning to buy in the near future. So Leica after sales service is not that bad at all 😉 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 15, 2020 Posted February 15, 2020 Hi Patrick90, Take a look here New M10-P Mysterious Stains. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Patrick90 Posted February 18, 2020 Share #62 Posted February 18, 2020 Don't you believe it ! This brand new M10P shows also a bunch of stains on the sensor ! What can i do ? Has anyone experienced same issue with two M10P ? Your returns will be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onasj Posted February 18, 2020 Share #63 Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Any digital camera if pushed high enough in ISO will show what are inaptly called "stains" in this thread. A $50,000 Phase One IQ4 system, currently the highest performing sensor on record in terms of both dynamic range and low-light (high-ISO) performance on photonstophotos.net will also show imaging artifacts—I know because I once shot a friend's very lively wedding reception in near total darkness with an IQ4 and once I pushed the photos to > ISO 100,000-ish, I saw distinct bands and other bizarre artifacts. Did I ask Phase One for a replacement? No, I simply realized I had reached the limit of how far I could push these images. There is nothing out-of-spec with your M10-P. Properly expose your images and enjoy your camera. Edited February 18, 2020 by onasj 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgillberg Posted February 18, 2020 Share #64 Posted February 18, 2020 Why do you shoot like that? I is not normal. If I did that with my M10P I'm sure I've the same result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted February 18, 2020 Share #65 Posted February 18, 2020 vor einer Stunde schrieb Patrick90: This brand new M10P shows also a bunch of stains on the sensor ! Does it do so if the image is correctly or at least nearly correctly exposed? And what ISO are we talking about? Please show some examples for others to judge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 18, 2020 Share #66 Posted February 18, 2020 Those stains are probably invisible when correctly exposed but question is what iso value you chose for your pics and how many stops you pushed them in PP. Just to take an example, some banding is visible at 100 iso + 6 EV on this Nikon camera. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z6/6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallancer Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share #67 Posted February 18, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 8 hours ago, Patrick90 said: Don't you believe it ! This brand new M10P shows also a bunch of stains on the sensor ! What can i do ? Has anyone experienced same issue with two M10P ? Your returns will be appreciated. I do and I returned both and stay tuned for Mono or R... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallancer Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share #68 Posted February 18, 2020 For anyone looking for the RAW picture, here is the link. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y0ixmrpgzbaywof/AAAyifBW1dSu56ZZoLeUAlkia?dl=0 Slightly increasing the exposure you will see those stains very clearly. I also sent the RAW to Leica engineer and yet got a response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 18, 2020 Share #69 Posted February 18, 2020 Thank you Fallancer. According to the exif data of your raw file, your pic has been shot at 16,000 iso. Then if you pushed it by three stops in PP it is equivalent to a 128,000 iso pic which is far beyond the Leica specs (50,000 iso). It is not the case at +1 stop though so if you can see significant stains then you would have a claim against Leica. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onasj Posted February 18, 2020 Share #70 Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Fallancer said: For anyone looking for the RAW picture, here is the link. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y0ixmrpgzbaywof/AAAyifBW1dSu56ZZoLeUAlkia?dl=0 Slightly increasing the exposure you will see those stains very clearly. I also sent the RAW to Leica engineer and yet got a response. Thanks for sharing; I just analyzed your file. You shot it at ISO 16,000. Adobe says the image is 2.50 stops underexposed (so properly exposed it is ISO 90,510). Amazingly, at ISO 90,510, I still don't see the "stains" (blobs). They *do* appear when I push the exposure of your image to ~+2.7-3 stops (which corresponds to ISO >100,000). Importantly, the blobs appear at almost the exact same exposure as unacceptable (to me) levels of horizontal banding, so I don't think the blobs would make any usable images unusable. The blobs also look suspiciously like oil spots to me. Therefore: 1) I only see the spots at ISO 100,000+, around the same ISO when ugly horizontal banding appears. 2) I wonder if the blobs come from oil spots (I assume from factory testing, assuming this was a new camera?). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinzhao Posted June 5, 2020 Share #71 Posted June 5, 2020 I send my m10p to Leica Germany on 2019 Dec. they replace a new cmos for free and send back to me on 2020 Feb. If any other users have the same cmos problem, I Strongly suggest turn to leica customer care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvinzhao Posted July 2, 2020 Share #72 Posted July 2, 2020 after I received the replaced CMOS,i find that the new CMOS has the same problem. I contact Leica customer care, they reply me I have to change another new cmos. the attached files are "before" and "after"(it seems better than before but the oil dot is not acceptable) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304954-new-m10-p-mysterious-stains/?do=findComment&comment=4002633'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 2, 2020 Share #73 Posted July 2, 2020 As a pure long shot I don't suppose you are using Lightrooms Flat Field tool are you? It's just that Sean Reid in his latest review of using older Nikon 28mm lenses on a Nikon Z7 body got very similar purple blotches when using the latest Adobe tool, and the blotches went away when using an older plugin version of the tool. This ruled out the camera and lenses as being the cause. If you have access to his site the effect is shown on page 5 of his latest review. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgillberg Posted July 2, 2020 Share #74 Posted July 2, 2020 pweew, don't you use your camera to take pictures with?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 2, 2020 Share #75 Posted July 2, 2020 4 hours ago, 250swb said: As a pure long shot I don't suppose you are using Lightrooms Flat Field tool are you? It's just that Sean Reid in his latest review of using older Nikon 28mm lenses on a Nikon Z7 body got very similar purple blotches when using the latest Adobe tool, and the blotches went away when using an older plugin version of the tool. I managed to reproduce the blobs with PSCS9 and Adobe Camera Raw - and with no option of a flat-field tool at all. See post #55. However, to get these blobs requires operator error, in both camera exposure and post processing, equivalent to driving one's automobile into a concrete wall at 100kph. And then complaining about bent metal. I'm not bothering to send my M10 in for a new sensor - or even test its black-chrome brother - because it has no practical meaning for competent photographers. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 2, 2020 Share #76 Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) I'm not saying it isn't operator error, operator error is what I believe this is, which is why I called it a long shot. If Sean Reid who bases his whole web site around standardised processing to compare lenses and cameras can discover similar purple blotches unexpectedly then it may just be worth asking if there is any more exotic error going on other than poor exposure and post processing skills. Edited July 2, 2020 by 250swb 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted July 3, 2020 Share #77 Posted July 3, 2020 This entire conversation is a waste. Fear not, your Nikon D850 super shooter will also fail if pushed beyond manufacturer specifications to this degree. I can’t even think of a good reason why one would be doing this. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted July 26, 2020 Share #78 Posted July 26, 2020 My take away from this discussion is that the [terrible] banding that I saw wth the M8 + M240 almost does not occur with the M10 - although I am considering an M10 occasion and this does scare me a bit just as does reported upstart problems . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted July 26, 2020 Share #79 Posted July 26, 2020 On 1/22/2020 at 7:18 AM, onasj said: The M10(P)'s sensor dust self-diagnosis is MUCH less sensitive than is needed to ensure there is no visible dust in photos. In other words, the self-diagnosis can read clean but you see lots of dust spots in your photos. I use a blower first (filtered), then if many blower passes (~10-20) don't do the trick, I use an eyelead gel stick (sticky blob on a stick). And only if both of those fail do I wet clean (which usually takes me an hour to get it just right). A bright headlamp with eye magnifiers will help. Exactly what I do. In 20 years of shooting digital cameras (Nikon, Canon, Leica) I've never owned one that didn't require occasional sensor cleaning. It's fast, easy and effective when done properly. It's also cost effective to clean your own sensor. A good cleaning kit can be purchased for less than $100. Getting your sensor cleaned at a dealer's shop will generally run around $75 each time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keek Posted December 30, 2021 Share #80 Posted December 30, 2021 Hi. Forgive me for my poor English. I noticed similar stains on my M10. They appear at high ISO and low light. They are visible even without pushing the EV. I have the impression that they get bigger with time. In the photos from a few years ago, they are half the size. Interestingly, they don't appear in every photo. For example, I am attaching two screens with frames taken several seconds apart. (A blur in one of the photos does not affect the problem.) I also took some photos at ISO 50,000 and there are no spots on any of them. Well, it looks like the Leica M10 is not a camera for taking photos at night. The M9 still remains my favorite Leica camera. Best wishes. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304954-new-m10-p-mysterious-stains/?do=findComment&comment=4341473'>More sharing options...
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