What if Leica S3 is already here?

[setuporg]

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After playing with the SL2 for a couple of days, I can't help thinking this is the S3.  This is my first SL and I got the S before it, in addition to a lot of the M line and a Q2.

The shape is clearly an S flattened.  The top screen, the top wheel, the thumbwheel.  The on/off switch bar CS.

With the S to L adapter, all the S lenses can focus well, including the S100mm!  And with the IBIS you can shoot them well into the night, so they are finally fast for true nocturnal shooting.

The lenses look like miniature S ones, minus the distance. The zooms weight about 1kg and have the front filter diameter 82mm, just like the rest of the S lenses except the 24mm/zoom/TS.

All the improvements folks wanted for the S are implemented, including two SD card slots, fast AF, etc.

The EVF is fantastic.  I haven't thought it will be OK but it mostly is.  Beats X1D II by a mile in terms of the EVF.

I can finally use the M Noctilux 0.95 anywhere.  Its balancing better on the SL2 than on the M10 (although as well as on the M246 and M60) and manual focusing is excellent.  I even got the matching M to L adapter in silver for mine.  All the M lenses work beautifully.  The APO Telyt is a cute li'l tele.  The 90/2.0 sits much better on the SL2 than on the M.

The SL APO 35mm is gorgeous.  I'm currently limiting the primes to it and its 50mm sibling, and the rendering is just like the M 50mm APO, which is the most S-like of the M ones (I've not tried the M75/1.2 or the new M90 Lux).  A few AF primes and a zoom plus a bunch of M lenses and occasionally an S lens to throw off other photogs makes for great many fun combinations.

Surely that does not obviate the MF and the complete S system is great, but I have a feeling Leica has achieved so much that it might be the future.

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by setuporg

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[ZHNL]

13 minutes ago, setuporg said:

After playing with the SL2 for a couple of days, I can't help thinking this is the S3.  This is my first SL and I had teh S before it, in addition to a lot of the M line and a Q2.

The shape is clearly an S flattened.  The top screen, the top wheel, the thumbwheel.  The on/off switch bar CS.

With the S to L adapter, all the S lenses can focus well, including the S100mm!  And with the IBIS you can shoot them well into the night, so they are finally fast for true nocturnal shooting.

The lenses look like miniature S ones, minus the distance. The zooms weight about 1kg and have the front filter diameter 82mm, just like the rest of the S lenses except the 24mm/zoom/TS.

All the improvements folks wanted for the S are implemented, including two SD card slots, fast AF, etc.

The EVF is fantastic.  I haven't thought it will be OK but it mostly is.  Beats X1D II by a mile in terms of the EVF.

I can finally use the M Noctilux 0.95 anywhere.  Its balancing better on the SL2 than on the M10 (although as well as on the M246 and M60) and manual focusing is excellent.  I even got the matching M to L adapter in silver for mine.  All the M lenses work beautifully.  The APO Telyt is a cute li'l tele.  The 90/2.0 sits much better on the SL2 than on the M.

The SL APO 35mm is gorgeous.  I'm currently limiting the primes to it and its 50mm sibling, and the rendering is just like the M 50mm APO, which is the most S-like of the M ones (I've not tried the M75/1.2 or the new M90 Lux).  A few AF primes and a zoom plus a bunch of M lenses and occasionally an S lens to throw off other photogs makes for great many fun combinations.

Surely that does not obviate the MF and the complete S system is great, but I have a feeling Leica has achieved so much that it might be the future.

 

What you described a jake trade of all but master none LOL

you accurately describe the SL2 though. I just feel SL2 will satisfy either True M or S users. My 2c. 

[setuporg]

Yes SL will not replace the M and will not be enough for the S folks, but somehow it fills the gaps so well I see many folks here dangling theirs already.:) . You've even managed to throw the whole SL forum in disarray with the WTF is EFCS thread.  (I still don't get it!:)

[tom0511]

no its just a SL2, FF camera with EVF.

S3 is a MF cmera with optical viewfinder.

in terms of IQ I find the SL2 + SL-primes closes the gap between FF and MF a little more.

 

[helged]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:26 AM, setuporg said:

After playing with the SL2 for a couple of days, I can't help thinking this is the S3.  This is my first SL and I got the S before it, in addition to a lot of the M line and a Q2.

The shape is clearly an S flattened.  The top screen, the top wheel, the thumbwheel.  The on/off switch bar CS.

With the S to L adapter, all the S lenses can focus well, including the S100mm!  And with the IBIS you can shoot them well into the night, so they are finally fast for true nocturnal shooting.

The lenses look like miniature S ones, minus the distance. The zooms weight about 1kg and have the front filter diameter 82mm, just like the rest of the S lenses except the 24mm/zoom/TS.

All the improvements folks wanted for the S are implemented, including two SD card slots, fast AF, etc.

The EVF is fantastic.  I haven't thought it will be OK but it mostly is.  Beats X1D II by a mile in terms of the EVF.

I can finally use the M Noctilux 0.95 anywhere.  Its balancing better on the SL2 than on the M10 (although as well as on the M246 and M60) and manual focusing is excellent.  I even got the matching M to L adapter in silver for mine.  All the M lenses work beautifully.  The APO Telyt is a cute li'l tele.  The 90/2.0 sits much better on the SL2 than on the M.

The SL APO 35mm is gorgeous.  I'm currently limiting the primes to it and its 50mm sibling, and the rendering is just like the M 50mm APO, which is the most S-like of the M ones (I've not tried the M75/1.2 or the new M90 Lux).  A few AF primes and a zoom plus a bunch of M lenses and occasionally an S lens to throw off other photogs makes for great many fun combinations.

Surely that does not obviate the MF and the complete S system is great, but I have a feeling Leica has achieved so much that it might be the future.

 

Irrespective of availability, characteristics and cost of the S3 - what I am absolutely certain about is to keep the S-lenses; they really shine on the SL2 (and Panasonic S1R). Actually, the L-mount collaboration has really open a new perspective to the S-system. Which are good news for all of us (I belive). Presently, I tend to pair the SL2 with S-lenses, from 24 to 180 mm. Such a pleasure to have full control of focus, exposure and - with the IBIS - 4 to 5 stop advantage for handholdability. Actually, the S-lenses have made me appreciate the L-system even more than before. Yes, the S-sensor is somewhat larger, the bit-depth higher and the colour accuracy possibly more natural. But the SL2 is already a very, very fine instrument.

[setuporg]

On 12/23/2019 at 3:07 AM, helged said:

Irrespective of availability, characteristics and cost of the S3 - what I am absolutely certain about is to keep the S-lenses; they really shine on the SL2 (and Panasonic S1R). Actually, the L-mount collaboration has really open a new perspective to the S-system. Which are good news for all of us (I belive). Presently, I tend to pair the SL2 with S-lenses, from 24 to 180 mm. Such a pleasure to have full control of focus, exposure and - with the IBIS - 4 to 5 stop advantage for handholdability. Actually, the S-lenses have made me appreciate the L-system even more than before. Yes, the S-sensor is somewhat larger, the bit-depth higher and the colour accuracy possibly more natural. But the SL2 is already a very, very fine instrument.

Absolutely.  The S100 is now easy to focus!  The 120 shines as always, and the 70mm is great as the rest.

And SL2's own 16-35mm is out of this world as a zoom, clearly growing out of the WATE.

[tom0511]

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YOu gain accurancy with the SL + S-lenses, but in then S-lenses focus faster and balance nicer on an S body. So while those S-lenses work good on the SL/SL2 so far I rather use them on an S-body most of the times, and if using a SL/SL2 I find the SL-lenses are much faster to focus than adapted S-lenses. I can see using the 70 or 100 or 180 S lens, but not really the wider ones (just soo big for the focal langth when using only the FF area)

[helged]

1 hour ago, tom0511 said:

YOu gain accurancy with the SL + S-lenses, but in then S-lenses focus faster and balance nicer on an S body. So while those S-lenses work good on the SL/SL2 so far I rather use them on an S-body most of the times, and if using a SL/SL2 I find the SL-lenses are much faster to focus than adapted S-lenses. I can see using the 70 or 100 or 180 S lens, but not really the wider ones (just soo big for the focal langth when using only the FF area)

In my experience, S lenses focuses as fast and as accurate on SL2 compared to S (S006 in my case). But the main reasons for using S-lenses on L-mount bodies are full control of manual focus and the rendering of the S-lenses. Very sharp, but not as optically 'perfect' as eg the SL-Crons. 

[SaW]

57 minutes ago, helged said:

In my experience, S lenses focuses as fast and as accurate on SL2 compared to S (S006 in my case). But the main reasons for using S-lenses on L-mount bodies are full control of manual focus and the rendering of the S-lenses. Very sharp, but not as optically 'perfect' as eg the SL-Crons. 

For me the main reason is not having to buy a new 12.000eur 3 lenses kit for the SL when I already have top quality lenses with more or less the same focal length ... 😌

[helged]

11 minutes ago, SaW said:

For me the main reason is not having to buy a new 12.000eur 3 lenses kit for the SL when I already have top quality lenses with more or less the same focal length ... 😌

Yes, the SL2 adds value to the S-system. At least for you and me... 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think the SL2 is a great asset to the S system, if you look at it that way. If nothing else, it allows you to use the S lenses with a 1.25x Tele-converter with stabilization. But it also allows for video, a more compact body, longer long exposure etc. There are a lot of nice benefits, and when you look at the price of the rest of the S system stuff (new anyway), it is cheaper than some of the lenses, so there is value there.

All that said, I agree with Tom. I think the longer lenses make the most sense for adaptation. I have the 35mm lens, for example, and it seems a bit crazy to use it, in comparison to the M 35mm 1.4 or the 35mm SL. I am using the S1 at the moment, and I have been in that situation a few times and I have mostly reached for the 35mm M lens even though it is probably not quite so sharp to the edges, simply because it is seemingly 1/10th the volume. The 35mm FLE is quite good stopped down a bit on the S1, so it is enough for most purposes. Right now I do not have an SL2, but I think that if I decided to use the SL2 quite a lot, I might see if I could sell some other lenses and get the 35mm, 28mm or 24mm Summicron (when it comes out), as having a compact native wide angle would be preferable.

[tom0511]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb helged:

Yes, the SL2 adds value to the S-system. At least for you and me... 

but what you gain over using it on the S body?

[helged]

6 hours ago, tom0511 said:

but what you gain over using it on the S body?

Full control of focus + IBIS. 

[xiaubauu2009]

7 hours ago, helged said:

Full control of focus + IBIS. 

Ability/possibility to attached most of the lens available. Ability to be mounted on a tech cam type camera to use as a tech cam. Pixel shift tech that is ver good for still life. More accurate focusing possibility compare to the S... the list goes on....

[tom0511]

ok ok I see

I shall check out S-lens AF on SL2. I only tried it on the SL before and found it quite slow and noisy compared to using the lenses on an S.

The 100 and 180 could be interesting for me, specially since I find the 100 hard to focus on the S.

 

 

[tom0511]

I checked the SL2 with the 100 APO. AF does work ok but there is a forth-back-forth movement with and sound before it locks.

So its ok but if you regulary shoot the SL2 (and not an S body) I certainly would prefer SL lenses which focus allmost silent and directly go to focus point faster.

 

 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I think it is mostly at how you look at it. If it is a supplement to your S system, it is great. If it is a replacement for your S system using S lenses, it is not as practical. If I did that, I would probably keep the 120mm and 180mm and sell the rest in favor of native SL lenses.

[setuporg]

The beauty of being an S photographer with a complete system is that you can try them all on the SL2 at your leisure and the results will baffle and intrigue the kids across the street at the SL forum.:) . I should do that with the TS at some point...

Edited December 27, 2019 by setuporg

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[davidmknoble]

I agree that the SL is a great addition to the S system and the S lenses shine on the SL.  What I dislike about the SL2 is the removal of the GPS.  I do not carry my cell phone with me all the time - I do use my Apple Watch, but even then some places just don’t have great cell service.  I would have liked the GPS system to remain intact on the SL2.  For that reason alone, I’ll keep my SL and use it with the S007 (or S3 if I can get one).