Exposure bracketing on SL 2

[markgc]

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Am I correct that bracketing is no longer listed in the menu for the SL? If so, does anyone know the rationale for eliminating this feature? Maybe it’s there and I’m not seeing it. It is present in SL1. Thanks. 

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[SrMi]

20 minutes ago, markgc said:

Am I correct that bracketing is no longer listed in the menu for the SL? If so, does anyone know the rationale for eliminating this feature? Maybe it’s there and I’m not seeing it. It is present in SL1. Thanks. 

You can access bracketing through the Drive menu or add it as a Favorite for direct access.

[thighslapper]

Unfortunately it is lumped in with all the other 'drive' modes including 'self timer' etc. 

Although setting it by assigning it to a Fn button is easy, unsetting it involves fiddling about ..... and you can't have a bracketed and a self timed exposure.

In contrast, on the S1R I have bracketing configured and set to an assignable switch on the front of the camera. In any mode I just flick a switch and every shot is bracketed and flick it again to turn it off. Whilst I generally admire Leicas ambition it reducing things to being as simple as possible, sometimes this actually makes life more complicated.

[SrMi]

11 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

Unfortunately it is lumped in with all the other 'drive' modes including 'self timer' etc. 

<snip>

You can un-lump it by adding it to the Favorites.

[jaapv]

I guess that the rationale is that many photographers don't use exposure bracketing that often any more, due to the flexibility of post-exposure compensation with high-dynamic range sensors. Having said that, if one wants to maximize DR, precise exposure is still needed. However, in that case, manual exposure using spot metering is probably a better option than bracketing.

Summarizing: It seems that Leica has downgraded the importance of the feature.

[SrMi]

As Jaap wrote, Leica may have downgraded the importance of this feature as with modern cameras, and their excellent dynamic range, exposure bracketing has become less critical. "Bracketing" is now often done in post.

[thighslapper]

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42 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I guess that the rationale is that many photographers don't use exposure bracketing that often any more, due to the flexibility of post-exposure compensation with high-dynamic range sensors. Having said that, if one wants to maximize DR, precise exposure is still needed. However, in that case, manual exposure using spot metering is probably a better option than bracketing.

Summarizing: It seems that Leica has downgraded the importance of the feature.

I live in the world of the landscape photographer ...... and we all bracket ..... in fact increasing numbers prefer bracketing to using graduated filters as LR makes exposure blending so easy ....and the process is non-destructive. Although I can usually process an image from one file under many circumstances if I've ensured the highlights are not blown, it is always good to have bracketed shots as a failsafe. 

Leica have not downgraded it as a feature as it's just the same crappy implementation as on the SL. They clearly have never bothered to talk to anyone who uses bracketing regularly. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by thighslapper

[thighslapper]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

As Jaap wrote, Leica may have downgraded the importance of this feature as with modern cameras, and their excellent dynamic range, exposure bracketing has become less critical. "Bracketing" is now often done in post.

I do not, and have never possessed, a  camera that can take sunset and sunrise shots where the DR is wide enough to both expose correctly for the sky and allow adequate noise free shadow recovery to create a balanced image. 

[ZHNL]

For SL2 exposure bracket, is there a way we can hit shutter, it wait a few sec before start exposure bracket? I assume it will automatically finish bracket without need for hit shutter each time, right? 
 

I haven’t try this function with my camera yet. 
 

Most other cameras also have option called exposure delay but I didn’t find it with SL2. 

[thighslapper]

2 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Most other cameras also have option called exposure delay but I didn’t find it with SL2. 

correct. 

it's no big deal and I can live with it, or use a plugged in remote release...... but it's the lack of attention to detail in a £5000 camera made by an otherwise obsessively meticulous manufacturer that makes me grouchy. 

[ZHNL]

2 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

correct. 

it's no big deal and I can live with it, or use a plugged in remote release...... but it's the lack of attention to detail in a £5000 camera made by an otherwise obsessively meticulous manufacturer that makes me grouchy. 

Thanks for your reply. I hope they can improve many things reported here in next firmware update. 

Leica can simplify menu or option which I love but I don't want them do that at cost of sacrifice IQ and functionality. I hate remote release, haven't used one for years and one more expensive accessories to break and lost. 

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, thighslapper said:

I live in the world of the landscape photographer ...... and we all bracket ..... in fact increasing numbers prefer bracketing to using graduated filters as LR makes exposure blending so easy ....and the process is non-destructive. Although I can usually process an image from one file under many circumstances if I've ensured the highlights are not blown, it is always good to have bracketed shots as a failsafe. 

Leica have not downgraded it as a feature as it's just the same crappy implementation as on the SL. They clearly have never bothered to talk to anyone who uses bracketing regularly. 

To summarize: you are upset because you cannot quickly switch exposure bracketing via a function button, but instead must go into the menu (Favorites) to do it? (Same as on SL 1)

[thighslapper]

16 hours ago, SrMi said:

To summarize: you are upset because you cannot quickly switch exposure bracketing via a function button, but instead must go into the menu (Favorites) to do it? (Same as on SL 1)

NO ..... I am upset because you cannot have a timed release AND Bracketing because bracketing has been put in the DRIVE menu.

That fact just highlights a number of other odd decisions that Leica have made and which other manufacturers have implemented much better. 

..... and no ..... a wired release isn't a sensible option in UK weather as you expose all the connections to the elements ..... and fiddling about with a mobile phone in the rain with a WiFi connection that runs down the already barely adequate battery capacity is not very good either. 

I'm beginning to wonder what the advantage of the SL2 is over the S1R apart from timed exposures of >60sec and marginally better performance with some M lenses ..... 

Edited December 20, 2019 by thighslapper

[SrMi]

2 minutes ago, thighslapper said:

NO ..... I am upset because you cannot have a timed release AND Bracketing because bracketing has been put in the DRIVE menu.

That fact just highlights a number of other odd decisions that Leica have made and which other manufacturers have implemented much better. 

..... and no ..... a wired release isn't a sensible option in UK weather as you expose all the connections to the elements ..... and fiddling about with a mobile phone in the rain with a WiFi connection that runs down the already barely adequate battery capacity is not very good either. 

I'm beginning to wonder what the advantage of the SL2 is over the S1R apart from timed exposures of >60sec and marginally better performance with some M lenses ..... 

Exposure bracketing has always been in the Drive menu (just checked my SL), no change there.

The only change they made is that now you can access bracketing settings directly when you select bracketing in the Drive menu and removed the explicit Exposure bracketing setting in the menu (which you can add back via Favorites). I think SL2 improved functionality vs. SL in regards to exposure bracketing.

I also prefer to use a timed release instead of a wired release.

S1R vs. SL2 discussion is probably better done in another thread :-). IMO, focus bracketing and a tiltable LCD are more critical advantages of S1R than exposure bracketing with delay. Still, if I have to pick one, it would be SL2. If you feel that S1R fits your needs better, you should get S1R instead of SL2 as you still can use the excellent L-mount lenses. IMO, the value of a system is defined more by its lenses than by its camera bodies. With L-mount, we can now pick and choose bodies and lenses.

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

If you feel that S1R fits your needs better, you should get S1R instead of SL2 as you still can use the excellent L-mount lenses. IMO, the value of a system is defined more by its lenses than by its camera bodies. With L-mount, we can now pick and choose bodies and lenses.

I have both and am keeping both.

S1R for landscape use with the 16-35 + 24-90 and the SL2 as a second body with the Lumix 70-200, or for very long exposures. 

SL2 with 16-35 + 50/2 or 75/2 for travel and general photography. 

The strengths and weaknesses can be exploited and avoided by judicious choice depending on circumstances. Neither is perfect. 

Luckily one has everything labelled and the other has very few buttons to remember, so swapping around is not that taxing on the brain. 

[ZHNL]

Pin point focus implementation is also way better with Panasonic. Leica SL2 pin point is almost useless for most landscape shooting means there is no difference between it and field focus, it just doesn't work at all and you don't have confidence where it focused. I know this because I see so many miss focused images with it.  I can imagine it is useful maybe in studio or product shots but Nikon Z has this same poor implementation that limit its usefulness, Panasonic is the best here. I tried use it focus tree tens meter away, It is not reliable that will focus to background. This is also a problem with all CDAF cameras, that focus tend to stick within range of current focus setting even you want focus something in front or back, it won't move at all. However, Panasonic give you option to always focus from near to infinity in setting, this largely solve this problem. I hope Leica will do the same.  

IBIS of Panaosnic S1 is just plain better with 70-200 lens no matter it is in Eshutter or Mshutter. 

My biggest problem with exposure bracket is not I can't access it. I can either put drive mode to Favorite or Func, but I can't use it with delay. 

Again, having said that, give my user case, I will pick SL2 over S1/R simply because M and S support otherwise Panasonic is a more useful camera for most stuff I have to say in term of functionality minus that messy menu system designed by robot.   

[thighslapper]

3 hours ago, ZHNL said:

Panasonic is a more useful camera for most stuff I have to say in term of functionality minus that messy menu system designed by robot.   

...... but once you have configured the C1-3 profiles and the Q quick menus you never have to bother with it ever again, so I will forgive them .....

[ZHNL]

1 hour ago, thighslapper said:

...... but once you have configured the C1-3 profiles and the Q quick menus you never have to bother with it ever again, so I will forgive them .....

I agree with you, I don't dare to dive in that menu after setup

The problem is I have multiple system to play with. If I don't pick it up often, I tend to forget what I did with those Cx or Q setup. Leica is way simpler to operate I have to say. It do need some attention initially but after that Just pick it up and shoot.  

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[DJGR33R]

On 12/19/2019 at 5:38 PM, thighslapper said:

Unfortunately it is lumped in with all the other 'drive' modes including 'self timer' etc. 

Although setting it by assigning it to a Fn button is easy, unsetting it involves fiddling about ..... and you can't have a bracketed and a self timed exposure.

In contrast, on the S1R I have bracketing configured and set to an assignable switch on the front of the camera. In any mode I just flick a switch and every shot is bracketed and flick it again to turn it off. Whilst I generally admire Leicas ambition it reducing things to being as simple as possible, sometimes this actually makes life more complicated.

One way of getting around this annoying feature on the SL2 is to select the bracketing drive option and trigger the camera remotely with Leica fotos 

[LikameLeica]

There is no perfect camera that meets everyone's needs.  I didn't know that Exposure Bracketing without Time Release was a problem until I read this post, but that is because of my use cases.  I cannot think of a situation where I would need these combined, especially with a tripod, IBIS, etc.  (Again this is based on my personal use cases and I do a lot of landscape).  If longer shutter speed is being used where movement with manual shutter release can be an issue, then I cannot imagine that this would then be a use case where i would use Exposure Bracketing.  Again just my personal experience/use cases.  

All that being said, there is not a perfect camera, but I truly believe Leica's menu system and simplified buttons and the way the camera can be customized to meet the needs of each users preferences is second to none.  So although not perfect, I think that it can be customized to fit the needs of many different types of use cases better than any camera I have used. This combined with the ability to establish 6 different Favorites for different use cases, truly makes it fit different users and situations very well.  This means I quickly switch between shooting street, landscape, portraits, action, monochrome/color. 

Lastly, combining the ability to have time release and exposure bracketing seems like it would be easy firmware change if they feel it is critical to their user community.

Maybe I have become a Leica Fan Boy  :>)