New: Leica Summilux-M 90 mm f/1.5 ASPH

[UliWer]

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Mr.Prime:

...Well, anyhow, just adding my 2c

My greetings to Herefordshire which I fondly remember since the time I stayed there 45 years ago (using a „Zenit B“ with an 1:2/58mm lens...).

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[dritz]

On 12/14/2019 at 9:15 AM, JonPB said:

This lens looks fantastic, but I think it is more the successor of the Summilux-R 80 than anything else. It is an entirely mechanical lens that works best with TTL focusing; it is, therefore, primarily for folks who use the SL system as a continuation of the R line, although it can also be used natively on the M platform. I like that approach and would be excited to see more like it. Perhaps it is time to revisit the idea of a Vario-Elmar-M?

I use the Summilux-R 80 on my SL and (rarely) on the M10 with the EVF.  A lot to like and 1/10th the price. The focus throw is long but what beautiful images.

[durangotang]

To calculate shallow depth of field and bokehness quantitatively, you can simply divide the focal length by the maximum aperture.

The 90mm Summilux would therefore be 90/1.5 = 60

The 75mm Noctilux would therefore be 75/1.25 = 60

The 50mm Noctilux would therefore be 50/0.95 = 52.63

The 50mm Summilux would therefore be 50/1.4 = 35.71

The 50mm Summicron would therefore be 50/2 = 25

The 35mm Summilux would therefore be 35/1.4 = 25

Personally, I prefer the 90mm angle of view and it would be more useful if you have either 35mm or 50mm lenses.  The 90mm Summilux is also the same size and less weight than the 75mm Noctilux, so it's not larger either.  I think it makes sense and I would opt for it over the 75mm Noctilux.

Edited December 19, 2019 by durangotang

[otto.f]

Except that you did not specify the distance from which you are shooting. The is the smallest object field is an A4 ~ with the 75/1.25 and the 90/1.5 and with the Noctilux an A2 ~. 

[AndreaP75]

On 12/17/2019 at 4:55 PM, nicci78 said:

Have you notice, that Leica just break the 75 & 90mm parity. 

Now you can get for the price of a fake Noctilux (f/1.25) a fake Summilux (f/1.5)

They both share same size and weight. Same magnification ratio. But 90mm is half stop slower ! For almost the same price. Leica is ripping us off. 

 

Before APO-Summicron-M 75 or 90mm share at least same f/2 aperture.. 75 is smaller and has a better magnification ratio.

And nowadays APO-Summicron-SL 75 & 90 annihilate all difference between them : same f/2 aperture, magnification ratio, size, weight and price.

Just choose the focal length you love.

But now you will lose the max aperture. Crazy disappointing. 

 

I'm not really convinced that we should talk about a fake Noctilux or Summilux. If we look back, the first Noctilux ever made was a 50mm f1.2. And we already have a 28mm f1.7 Summilux on the Q series. From a pure marketing point of view, any lens faster than f1.4 may take the Noctilux tag, while any lens from 1.4 to below f2 may get the Summilux one. I think Leica has played a very smart move in carefully selecting the aperture to make both lenses render extremely close if not identical. They have basically maximised the Noctilux project adding an almost identical lens, performance wise, for the users who prefer 90mm over 75mm.

A Summilux 90mm f1.4 may have been possible, but in that case, it would have provided slightly less DOF than the Noctilux 75, with possible impact on the sales of that premium lens. Without the existence of the Noctilux 75, the price of this Summilux 90mm could have been much less. 

At the same time, a Summilux 75mm f1.4 Asph could have been possible, again in a price range of 7000 Euro. That "almost half a stop" and the Noctilux tag has brought the lens into another price league. 

Of course, this is pure speculation, but at the end of the day, it's up to us to decide whether to go or not for a certain lens offering, without following blindly whatever is coming fresh from Wetzlar.

What I know is that I will keep using the M 75 Lux for a long time still.

[BernardC]

I don't see what the big deal is, other than the price! It's similar to any 85/1.4, which is a specification that photographers have been using for decades. I suspect that it will be one of the best lenses of its type, and that it will provide excellent resolution and contrast wide open.

As for the price, it reflects how many lenses Leica think they can sell. It is not a mass-market product, to say the least.

There are plenty of less costly alternatives for those of us who can not afford this lens, and who want similar specifications.

[a5m]

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I think since the 50 APO Leica's lens naming convention no longer correlates with the pricing. Not that it was ever supposed to, but generally it did. Now if Leica wants they can ask $8K for a f/2.0 50mm or $13K for a f/1.5 90mm. Better yet, some will even think it's totally justified.

With the camera market in a steady decline, I personally am happy to see Leica continuing to release new lenses and cameras, no matter how outrageously priced. Gives me a feeling of security, although not sure that's a good thing. In any case all Leica lenses or cameras I've purchased were pre-owned, so even though I'd probably never buy this lens, it wouldn't be any different.

[nicci78]

19 hours ago, AndreaP75 said:

They have basically maximised the Noctilux project adding an almost identical lens, performance wise, for the users who prefer 90mm over 75mm.

A Summilux 90mm f1.4 may have been possible, but in that case, it would have provided slightly less DOF than the Noctilux 75, with possible impact on the sales of that premium lens. Without the existence of the Noctilux 75, the price of this Summilux 90mm could have been much less. 

I think that is just an excuse to explain, why 90mm is just a Summilux. 

Why would I want to pay a similar price, for same depth of field and magnification at the cost of 1/2 stop less light ? 

Pair the Noctilux-M 1,25/75mm with the SL2. Then crop it 1.2x in Lightroom to get 90mm equivalent. You will be rewarded with 32.4 MP and an equivalent field of view of f/1.5 90mm. Even with M10 or SL, you still retain 16.7 MP.

Basically, you get a free Summilux-M 1,5/90mm with every Noctilux-M 75mm. With the added bonus of f/1.25 instead of f/1.5

That's why I see a problem here : you can mimic the 90mm with the 75mm, but not the other way around. 

 

My advice, just buy the Noctilux 75mm over the Noctilux 50 or Summilux 90. 

It is heavy, but smaller than APO-Summicron-SL line. 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by nicci78

[dem331]

35 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

I think that is just an excuse to explain, why 90mm is just a Summilux. 

Why would I want to pay a similar price, for same depth of field and magnification at the cost of 1/2 stop less light ? 

Pair the Noctilux-M 1,25/75mm with the SL2. Then crop it 1.2x in Lightroom to get 90mm equivalent. You will be rewarded with 32.4 MP and an equivalent field of view of f/1.5 90mm. Even with M10 or SL, you still retain 16.7 MP.

Basically, you get a free Summilux-M 1,5/90mm with every Noctilux-M 75mm. With the added bonus of f/1.25 instead of f/1.5

That's why I see a problem here : you can mimic the 90mm with the 75mm, but not the other way around. 

 

My advice, just buy the Noctilux 75mm over the Noctilux 50 or Summilux 90. 

It is heavy, but smaller than APO-Summicron-SL line. 

 

 

But by that argument the 90mm will give you 32MP of 110mm or 20 MP of 135mm.  

[dkmoore]

For me using one of these giant lenses would be for specialty purposes and due to that the 75 Noctilux renders the 50 and 90 versions obsolete. I think a more spread out approach would have been more logical. 

35, 50, 90 or 75. Done 
 

But, unless I start using an SL I am out of this race.  Too big on the M10. 

[nicci78]

4 hours ago, dem331 said:

But by that argument the 90mm will give you 32MP of 110mm or 20 MP of 135mm.  

The issue is not the MP count. But the fact that Noctilux 75 gives you f/1.25 and Summilux 90 only f/1.5

 

[dem331]

32 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

The issue is not the MP count. But the fact that Noctilux 75 gives you f/1.25 and Summilux 90 only f/1.5

 

I think that the differences in DOF are minute between the three lenses (the two Noctiluxes and the Summilux), measured in mms. 
 

At the same subject distance the 90mm has a smaller DOF than the 75mm (by 1mm at 2 metres). At the subject distance that gives the same FOV the 75mm has a smaller DOF (by 2mm compared to the 90mm at 2.4 metres.)

So to me the differences in the maximum aperture are not particularly relevant here, but rather deciding which focal length you would like to own for your type of photography. 
 

If you like to take out of focus pictures on an M all 3 will do the job magnificently 😀

[Photoskeptic]

Once again Leica produces a lens no one asked for!

[UliWer]

If you look into this Forum with many postings asking for the 1.5/90mm long before it came to the market, you might get a different view.

[happymac]

They asked for it, but for another price.

[nicci78]

Of course, they asked for a Summilux 90 at the price of a Summilux. Not at the price of a Noctilux. 

[LeicaR10]

I am somewhat amused at comments made about the 75 Noctilux and new 90 Summilux.  Leica produces the finest optical lenses in the world.  It produces cameras and lenses for a market that asked for those capabilities.  Affordability is a consideration, but in reality it is a lower priority.  Leica is a small niche, 100+ year old company;  its optical and camera research and development does not come cheap when the goal is to produce the best lenses and cameras in the world.  Wetzlar is not a mass production center like those prosumer assembly lines of Canon, Nikon in Malaysia, China etc..  The two M lenses are for photographers who want a unique and special look, like the 50 Noctilux.  Professional photographers such as fashion, portrait photographers and other genres need to make their work stand out from the highly competitive realm of photography.  Also, many professionals, myself included, either lease or buy cameras and lenses and write the costs off on business taxes.  Like many things in life, if you need a capability that is unique and different, it comes with a cost.  The Chinese M lenses are fine for those who accept the results. What many photographers seem to forget, it is the photograph content that is most important.  Professional photographers live or perish by the content of their photographs...not by the brand, make or cost of their equipment.  Personally, I thank God that Leica is still making cameras and lenses that meet or exceed my expectations so I can go create the photographs for my corporate and private collector clients.  Perhaps we should reflect and be more grateful for Leica being a company that listens, creates and builds the superb cameras and lenses that we need and use today.   r/ Mark 

[Arrow]

The solution to the: if you crop a 50 Nocti you get a 75 Nocti, crop a 75 Nocti you get a 90 Summi, crop a 90 Summi you get a 135 whatever .. would simply be a speedy SL Apo AF Noctilux 35 f0.89 - 90 f1.5 zoom lens  

Edited December 22, 2019 by Arrow

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

54 minutes ago, Arrow said:

The solution to the: if you crop a 50 Nocti you get a 75 Nocti, crop a 75 Nocti you get a 90 Summi, crop a 90 Summi you get a 135 whatever .. would simply be a speedy SL Apo AF Noctilux 35 f0.89 - 90 f1.5 zoom lens  

They’re working on it. Comes with a free backpack

[otto.f]

7 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Leica being a company that listens,

If the 75Noct and the 90Lux for the M are answers to that listening, they are the wrong answers. I do not believe that ‘listening’ was the reason to make them, that’s a laugh. They are just flagships, and will have some commercial value as such, just like the special editions of M’s like Hermès,  HODINKEE, Bhumibol, etc. But lenses of this volume belong in the SL line. They do not fit in the basic idea of M photography at all. Barnack and perhaps Mandler too, will turn themselves in their grave if they see them. The Noctilux 0.95 is on the edge, where the 75 Summilux was close to it but with these recent fast lenses the M is bursting out of its seams. The prosumers you’re talking about will be happy to use an SL for this kind of imagery, and AF would be a blessing too for that kind of work.

Edited December 22, 2019 by otto.f