New: Leica Summilux-M 90 mm f/1.5 ASPH

[james.liam]

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2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Just wondering:  How/where were you able to get this lens so quickly after its announcement?

Certain Leica Stores appear to have received them on the day of the announcement. The one in New York is in SoHo and they received a sample on announcement day that had been paid for in advance. The neighborhood runneth over with celebs, famed photographers, cinematographers and the like. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by james.liam

[coronita]

On 12/13/2019 at 12:58 AM, wlaidlaw said:

I gave up and have bought a 7Artisans 75/f1.25 which is far better than it has any right to be for the very modest price. I much prefer its rendition to my unloved and rarely used 75/2.5 Summarit.  7Artisans acknowledge that getting these lenses to focus and match RF to optical focus perfectly is very difficult and give you the tool to adjust it yourself. With a live view M camera, this is really very easy and only takes about 20 minutes of trial and error, rather than a trip back to Leica as both my new 50/.95 Noctilux and 35/2 ASPH Summicron required. The only thing is to keep a note of the distance in mm of each adjustment of the RF ring and whether clockwise or anti-clockwise or it is easy to make the focus worse instead of better. I used a 0.005mm Mitutoyo dial gauge to get the adjustment perfect but that is probably over-kill. 

Wilson

I quite like my copy of the 7Artisans 75 mm f/1.25 lens, but -for me- focus shift from  f/1.25 to -for example- f/4 is a serious problem. Quite more  that accurately focusing wide open with rangefinder. You can see it following the link to my  review (Google translate as needed):

http://bit.ly/2J9pTLd

 

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[james.liam]

13 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I'm sure it's a wonderful lens.  I can't wait to see some cats and flowers images at f1.5.

 

One more nail in the coffin of the original Leica 35mm ethos.  

As long as you have superb, small glass to go with trimmed M digital (like the M10 sans video), the ethos survives. The recent 28 Summaron is testimony to Leica's commitment to this. So is the 35 Summarit. Shame they still don't make the 50 Elmarit M. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by james.liam

[MarkP]

44 minutes ago, james.liam said:

Shame they still don't make the 50 Elmarit M. 

True, but it's readily available second hand. 

[Ouroboros]

54 minutes ago, james.liam said:

As long as you have superb, small glass to go with trimmed M digital (like the M10 sans video), the ethos survives. The recent 28 Summaron is testimony to Leica's commitment to this. So is the 35 Summarit. Shame they still don't make the 50 Elmarit M. 

True enough at the moment.  I have both the 28mm summaron-m and the 50mm elmar-m that I use with my MP and the 90mm macro elmar-m rounds out the ideal Leica M travel set up for me. I have the option of the 28mm summicron asph, 50mm summilux asph and 90mm elmarit-m if I want to use  faster lenses.  Both options  I have are mainly current within the original Leica ethos    Neither speed  or bokeh are  king in my world. 

The new 90mm f1.5 is  not intended for  'traditional' Leica M photographers and the M (rangefinder) system will need to evolve beyond that original ethos for lenses like this.

[Steve Ash]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Herr Barnack:

Just wondering:  How/where were you able to get this lens so quickly after its announcement?

I went into the Leica store in Wetzlar. It is still there. Go ahead.

[wlaidlaw]

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9 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Do people still do movie set or theater stage photography?

This lens and the quiet M10-P shutter would seem like a good match for those tasks.

Yes there are at least two forum members who do this extensively. 

Wilson

[Stuart Richardson]

The most reasonable use for the lens that I can think of is more of that nature...situations where you need to shoot in low light at a medium distance. I think closeup the DOF will be so thin that it will both be hard to focus and present a difficulty to have enough of the subject in focus as to be useful. But if it is a well corrected sharp lens at 1.5, it could be interesting for a subject at 2-10 meters, and it should still give you the ability to create a nice smooth background and give you more reach than a 50mm or 75mm. This use is pretty specific and frankly rather charitable...F/1.5 to f/2 is not a huge leap in DOF nor speed, and the 90mm APO Cron performs superbly at f2, is a lot smaller and lighter, MUCH cheaper and has a lovely character. I struggle to see too many actual photographers buying this lens. It is interesting to look at the MTF. The Summicron is better at f2 and f2.8, but the 90mm 1.5 edges it slightly at f5.6...

The sample photos on the Leica site do look like it has a lovely character, so I am sure someone will put it to good use, but it seems a bit of a tough sell. For the price, you can likely buy the 100mm F2 AND and an S006 these days and still have cash to spare. You might even be able to get the 100mm F2 and S007...

 

[otto.f]

7 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

you can likely buy the 100mm F2 AND and an S006 these days and still have cash to spare. You might even be able to get the 100mm F2 and S007...

And this will hold much better in your hands. You can also choose for the AME 100/2.8 R with an SL or 2 for a small 4000€. The bokeh of this 90 reminds me of that lens. 

[rramesh]

Love the specs. Does it come with a gym membership?

[Ouroboros]

5 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

 

Yes there are at least two forum members who do this extensively. 

Wilson

Yes, well, stage photographers are all millionaires, aren't they!

 

[LocalHero1953]

As an amateur stage photographer......
I would rather have both zoom and AF (though I know others do theatre photography superbly well with the M and MF). Most of the time I use the SL and its zooms. For better separation I will use my 90SL when it comes back from Wetzlar having its focus ring loosened up a bit.
If I owned this (which I won't) it would be for portraits rather than for subjects who are moving a lot. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[AndreaP75]

I find it curious that, probably as a first time in Leica history, a Noctilux and a Summilux are build up and priced so similarly. They will possibly give the same image quality / rendering, besides the obvious difference of focal length.
I wonder what the price would have been without the existence of the Noctilux 75mm..., possibly in the 7000-8000 Euro range.

Anyway, the trend of striving for optical perfection at any cost (price, dimensions, weight, etc...) is parting away from the essence of the M system. We’re heading towards a bridge system of L-mount cameras performing well with M mount lenses, which can be now designed knowing that the end user will be using them on EVF cameras. 
I’m not sure if we will ever see a M camera with integrated EVF. Lenses approaching 1 kg are in any case better balanced on a SL body...

Just my 2 cents

Edited December 15, 2019 by AndreaP75

[chris_tribble]

9 hours ago, wlaidlaw said:

 

Yes there are at least two forum members who do this extensively. 

Wilson

We're still out there. For me, 90 is a completely inappropriate FL for stage / music. I use 28 + 50 on paired M10 bodies for close work + 70-200 L 2.8 on a 5D4 ... Lots of examples here:

THEATRE
https://www.ctribble.co.uk/theatre.html

MUSIC
https://www.ctribble.co.uk/performance.html

These really cover pretty well every circumstance...

[fotografr]

On 12/12/2019 at 12:32 PM, aj37 said:

I wonder how many M camera bodies are going to need a rangefinder tune-up to focus this thing accurately at 1m...?

Probably all three people who buy one.

It's a gigantic lens at a gigantic price.

[Flu]

Hm....! I would have thought the 90mm to be a little bit bigger than the 75 Noct. But I've got them both on my desk right next to each other and from what I can tell, they use the exact same outer shell and I think the 90 might actually be lighter. Haven't weighed them on a scale, just in the hands feel.

[dem331]

33 minutes ago, Flu said:

Hm....! I would have thought the 90mm to be a little bit bigger than the 75 Noct. But I've got them both on my desk right next to each other and from what I can tell, they use the exact same outer shell and I think the 90 might actually be lighter. Haven't weighed them on a scale, just in the hands feel.

You are right.  From redotforum:

 

Both the 75mm Noctilux and 90mm Summilux feature near-identical dimensions and weight, sharing the same 67mm filter size and 91mm overall length. The new 90mm tips the scales at 1010g, just 45g less than its 75mm cousin.

 

 

 

[nicci78]

Have you notice, that Leica just break the 75 & 90mm parity. 

Now you can get for the price of a fake Noctilux (f/1.25) a fake Summilux (f/1.5)

They both share same size and weight. Same magnification ratio. But 90mm is half stop slower ! For almost the same price. Leica is ripping us off. 

 

Before APO-Summicron-M 75 or 90mm share at least same f/2 aperture.. 75 is smaller and has a better magnification ratio.

And nowadays APO-Summicron-SL 75 & 90 annihilate all difference between them : same f/2 aperture, magnification ratio, size, weight and price.

Just choose the focal length you love.

But now you will lose the max aperture. Crazy disappointing. 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by nicci78

[IkarusJohn]

Not sure I understand your disappointment, Nicci.

The 90mm is 15mm longer (in focal length), which will ever so slightly increase foreshortening and reduce depth of field.  But, wide open, it is 0.25 wider ... apart from bragging rights, I’d have thought the only difference in use is which field of view you prefer.  Having had both the 90 & 75 AA Summicrons, I’d go for the 75 Noctilux (if I didn’t already have a 75 and I had that sort of spare cash).

I doubt I’d be disappointed with either.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Mr.Prime]

I have the perception, as a newbie of course, that the Leica name is it'self very valuable and they have to maintain this asset. Their brand is one based on being the best, bar none, and with exclusivity so that folk who own their gear both feel special and have 100% confidence that they have the best possible equipment that money can buy in the 35mm realm. And the quality of images from the M10 with a good lens are soooo darn good that any bitching about 35mm no longer makes any sense to me. I'm not a pro, don't know any pro's but I gather it used to be necessary to sport a MF camera to be taken seriously at a wedding and in the Editors office of a magazine. That can't be the case the any longer. So Leica has to have flagship lenses on offer, lenses that have few if any equals and which are beyond reproach.

Better lenses may have a very positive affect on the evolution of the M camera line, by providing an incentive to make the cameras better, easier to use with these fine lenses and able to take advantage of their optics. I don't see Leica 'ruining' the M as a result because they have the SL now, a platform to hold all those features that can not yet be incorporated into an M without unacceptable compromises. But over the long-term, technology will trickle down from the SL to the M as these compromises ease.

I think there is some mileage to be gained from adding EVF capabilities to an M in some hybrid form. I'm confident Leica are exploring all the options and we'll know about it when they feel they have something that their M customers will appreciate.

Well, anyhow, just adding my 2c 😀

Edited December 18, 2019 by Mr.Prime