Image quality comparison between Hasselblad X1D II and Leica SL2

[Tailwagger]

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1 minute ago, jscottyk said:

@Tailwagger, it's a little bit more than a year now, I'm curious if you now have an opinion on "if I could have only one"?

Not entirely, but if forced to choose it would be the SL2 based on its greater flexibility in the form of adequate vs abysmal AF performance, far broader lens family, IBIS and a personal preference for 3x2 over 4x3. I continue to believe the ergo, noise floor and color rendition of the HB is somewhat superior, but the SL2 edges the X1D as it simply works in many more situations where the HB simply can't. 

[jscottyk]

2 minutes ago, Tailwagger said:

Not entirely, but if forced to choose it would be the SL2 based on its greater flexibility in the form of adequate vs abysmal AF performance, far broader lens family, IBIS and a personal preference for 3x2 over 4x3. I continue to believe the ergo, noise floor and color rendition of the HB is somewhat superior, but the SL2 edges the X1D as it simply works in many more situations where the HB simply can't. 

Thanks for that @Tailwagger. Hearing from shooters that have experience with both SL2 and X1Dii is super useful.

I am still regularly shooting a ccd Monochrom and have learned to live with it's idiosyncrasies. Looking to upgrade my color rig from a Sony A7ii and the SL2 and X1Dii are the front runners. The ergo, noise floor and color rendition of the HB. Doing a weeks rental of the SL2 soon to continue my test.

[Mr.Q]

Forced to choose one I'd also keep the SL2, but forced to choose two, I'd pick a Sony/Canon and X1Dii. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

1 hour ago, Mr.Q said:

Forced to choose one I'd also keep the SL2, but forced to choose two, I'd pick a Sony/Canon and X1Dii. 

One only. SL2

Two. SL2 and X1DII.

Sony? I own a bunch of them and despise them all..... Except the RX1RII.

Gordon

[meerec]

SL2 + 907X [same sensor as x1d, different ergonomics] 🤔🤓💯

[Mr.Q]

5 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Sony? I own a bunch of them and despise them all..... Except the RX1RII.

I don't enjoy shooting with Sony either but it's hard to argue against it's practicality as a tool. 

It seems Canon has caught up in the AF department so I'd like to try out the R5/R6 as an alternative, but for now A9 is what I use for fast action.

[Macberg]

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vor 8 Stunden schrieb meerec:

SL2 + 907X [same sensor as x1d, different ergonomics] 🤔🤓💯

I have both of them now, the 907x is still brand new and has hardly been used yet. The 907X is just an exceptional, beautifully designed camera but, unlike the X1DII, it is not weather-sealed and therefore I would not want to use it for most landscape-shootings. I don't really care about that disadvantage as I will only use it in studio or studio-like surroundings or maybe just in "in front of the door"-surroundings (like weddings).
However,  I have to say that, being used to C1, I haven't really got used to using Hasselblad's Phocus for postprocessing yet (it is really not as intuitive as C1 and so far I haven't figured out whether you can create and use any profiles as in C1 - I'm afraid you just can't 😕). I know, that normally you wouldn't want to change the extraordinary Hasselblad-colours, but sometimes it might be a benefit to create a series of photos which have the same colour-look when using different cameras (like, for example the SL2 and the 907X) for the same job. It's really a shame that you can't use C1 to process Hasselblad's 3FR-files.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Macberg

[jrp]

 

[Tailwagger]

7 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

One only. SL2

Two. SL2 and X1DII.

Sony? I own a bunch of them and despise them all..... Except the RX1RII.

In my case, another tough call, but if only one, while my eyesight holds it would be the M over SL. 

Two? M plus SL2.  

Three? The HB now makes an appearance.  But if it had the IBIS and AF speed of the SL2... hmmm.

I was tempted to mention Sony in my earlier reply above.  Others might disagree and its been quite a while since I've shot with one, but I tend to view the SL2 as representing a middle ground between an A7R and the X1D.   Operationally, the SL2 might not be quite as refined as the X1D, but it's parsecs beyond the Sony. Likewise, while the SL2 is far superior to the X1D in terms of AF,  the Sony is in an entirely different league.  I could easily see some folks deciding, given the cost of Leica optics, opting to pair the ends of the spectrum rather than suffering the cost of a set of Summicrons... Sony for action, long lenses, lower relative cost to build a complete system, X1D for shooting experience, size/weight, IQ, MF-like look. 

While it might not have been the case in years past, it certainly seems true today that any pro/semi-pro mirrorless camera is fully capable of delivering the goods from an IQ perspective. Regardless, I continue to hold the opinion that in terms of rendering it is the lenses that make the greatest difference. Certainly there remain reasons to prefer one system over another solely on the basis of the camera body.  But as optics remain useful over many generations of bodies and character is more a property of glass, IMO, unless budget over the long term is of zero importance, it is wiser to chose a system on the strength of its optics than that of the device they are attached to.  While numerous other factors could sway things in other directions, flash capability, tethering, etc, etc... for those who hold a similar PoV w.r.t. driving decisions glass first, its not difficult to conclude that if forced to choose a single system, going with the L-mount represents the best path forward... though I'd feel a whole lot better about that assertion if Leica finally delivers on the promised wide primes this year.

[meerec]

3 hours ago, Macberg said:

It's really a shame that you can't use C1 to process Hasselblad's 3FR-files.

I don’t even bother using Phocus. I use Lightroom for all my RAW needs for all cameras, currently two Leicas and the Hasselblad. Simple. 

[CharlesL]

7 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

 I continue to hold the opinion that in terms of rendering it is the lenses that make the greatest difference.

Concur and note that it is a pleasure to use M-mount lenses on the X1Dii. The electronic shutter does exclude some shots, but surprisingly few in general use. The various generations of Leica M lenses give you a wide range of renderings.

[CharlesL]

8 hours ago, Macberg said:

..., I haven't really got used to using Hasselblad's Phocus for postprocessing yet (it is really not as intuitive as C1 and so far I haven't figured out whether you can create and use any profiles as in C1 - I'm afraid you just can't 😕). I know, that normally you wouldn't want to change the extraordinary Hasselblad-colours, but sometimes it might be a benefit to create a series of photos which have the same colour-look when using different cameras (like, for example the SL2 and the 907X) for the same job.

If you can process one X1D or 907X shot to your satisfaction in Phocus, you can save a preset and re-use it; see the manual on the Adjustments Browser section of the program.

And if you want to make a custom profile in place the default Hasselblad HNCS, see the section on Reproduction.

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

13 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

I don't enjoy shooting with Sony either but it's hard to argue against it's practicality as a tool. 

It seems Canon has caught up in the AF department so I'd like to try out the R5/R6 as an alternative, but for now A9 is what I use for fast action.

I got my first Sony, almost immediately after my SL601, which I nearly returned as not fit for purpose. I had a need for TTL flash and HSS for a bit and the flash system on the SL601 was completely broken when it was released. I kept up with Sony until the A7R3 because I wanted the resolution when I travelled and I thought the AF and system speed would help when I travelled. Then I bought the X1D and took it to Cuba. Came back with more *keepers* than any trip I'd been on. Turns out technique trumps toys. Something I thought I already knew. I did travel with Sony's after that. But since the S1R and Sl2 turned up they've been in a drawer.

Yes. The Sony's are technological marvels. And I'm not anti-tech. There are situations where Sony's AF system will be important. Sports and bird photographers. But in my world there is almost no shooting situation where a Sony will give me better results than a SL2. And I shoot people for a living. I still have my A9 and A7R3. Haven't got around to selling them yet. I did the eye AF thing for a bit. The technology is epic. But it just didn't give me better results. But I don't shoot sports and I don't do video. As it turns out, for me, the AF in my S1R and SL2 is superior to the A7R3 or A9. Being able to get reliable AF at EV-6 is very useful at a wedding or under a modeling light in studio. Bizarrely, unlike the videos I see on Youtube, my models don't spend their time trying to stress test the AF system of my camera. They don't move erratically side to side or bob up and down. Or randomly walk behind other people or a pole. A fast, reliable single shot AF system is actually fine for getting the job done. And I don't own a cat. So I don't need to have millions of sharp images of my feline reacting to a cucumber.

And to be honest, I like that I still need to be making the decisions when I take photos. Thinking and planning. And when I'm shooting for myself, making mistakes. That's part of the fun. The more the camera does the less of a photographer I become. I think in my lifetime that the norm will be to pull stills from 12K footage, re-light them in Photoshop and put them on Instagram. Every shot will be perfectly in focus shot at F1. It'll be so boring....

Gordon

[Mr.Q]

Again, while I agree with your premise that there are more enjoyable cameras out there, one needs a Sony or an equally capable and cheap (relative) camera in certain situations, not limited to sports and BIF.....

1. Meeting my family including small kids, which happens very seldom due to this stupid pandemic. It's important that anyone can pick up my A9 and pile up keepers because every moment is precious. It doesn't hurt that AF-C in video is idiot-proof as well.
2. As a beater camera when travelling to 3rd world countries or off-roading on my bike.
3. When I'm drunk and unable to focus properly.

Of course for more considered shooting, I have my Leica's and Hassy, but I probably shoot more with my A9 (and honestly, even with my iPhone for that matter). In the perfect world it would be all about fun and enjoying my hobby, but in reality, it's not.  Same goes for my other hobbies (cars and motorcycles) as well. I don't always get to drive/ride what I like. Sometimes it's the minivan to pick up the kids, sometimes it's the moped to commute. I think you get the drift.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I do get your drift. Entirely valid. People are different and see the world differently. This is a good thing.

I don't see *every moment* as precious. They're just moments. Either it's good enough with or without a camera or not at all. A photo is just a trigger for a memory. I don't need every second documented. I always have a camera with me but my average shot count is less than half a dozen for a family event.  Still I have a library of hundreds of thousands of images. I still take the vast majority of my *personal* photos with an M. Or occasionally a CL if I'm feeling lazy. I can track a bride walking down the aisle with an M90 at f2. Kids are no problem at f 5.6. I use my phone or Insta 360 for video. Not all my favourite photos are perfectly composed, perfectly exposed and pin sharp either. And from people who see my images of my family they don't need technical perfection either. I'm actually pretty good with a rangefinder. probably over 90% in a non structured environment and higher when I'm shooting with the SL2. I don't feel it holds me back. If I want an image the SL2 gets it, almost every time.

Personally, I'll take a couple of shots and then let the camera sit on my hip while I either enjoy a moment or participate in it. I have zero interest in using AFC to capture every precious moment. As for piling up the keepers. I get maybe 4 "keepers" a year. The rest are snapshots. Snap shots are awesome. I love my snapshots. I make a book every year. 2020 will be 46 images. That's plenty.

This thread needs pictures. One of my all time favourites. 8 years ago. M9 35mm. Advantages of always having a camera with you.

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L1000125.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

An A9 is no easier to use than an SL2. So I don't see how it matters for others to use. Not that that's ever happened to me. Everyone either has there own camera or uses their phone. And I'm just not interested in their photos on my gear. Sorry.

I also don't take a beater when I travel. Cuba with an X1D. Burma with S1R's and SL lenses. I'm more worried about my gear in some European capitals than I was in Namibia. If I'm going to bother with anything more than my phone I want a camera I really like using. They're insured. Only the memory cards are really important. I have a Z7 that I thought I'd take when I travel. Fine camera. Great IQ. Good handling. Still take the SL2 or a 'blad.....

We have a different approach to this photography thing, obviously. And that's the way it should be. I'm not right or wrong. Just different. I'm glad the A9 works for you. If you need another I have one for sale....

Gordon

[tom0511]

Am 1.12.2019 um 03:44 schrieb Mr.Q:

I agree that the Hassy files are different in that they come in a flatter and more neutral rendering, and they can appear to be lower contrast SOOC. Moving the sliders in post quickly reveals how much detail and contrast you could pull from the X1D files. It's kind of like a LOG profile for video as it retains much more dynamic range and color depth. The X1D isn't a JPEG camera that's for sure. 

As for the lens choices, for what I shoot with the X1D, the 21 + 30 + 80 is perfect. Luckily for me, all 3 seem to be regarded as best in class optically. I may purchase the 135 + 1.7 down the line, but for now I'm happy with the Leica R 80-200/4 for landscapes. If I need longer or faster the A9 is probably better anyway.

One issue I have with the current SL lens lineup is that I can't shoot wider than 35mm without opting for one of the Bazooka zooms. I guess it's another year or two before the 21, 24, and 28 Summicrons arrive. 

Why not the M21/3.4? 

[tom0511]

I feel with the Hassy I shoot somewhat different, I take less images but therefore a higher percentage of "good" (for my taste and purpose) images.

With the SL2 I "fire" more often which often leads to more images , but not more good images. The x1d sensor seems to be able to allmost allways draw the light and colors as beautiful as I remember it from my eyes, and I believe the images  look a little more 3d.

The SL lenses, specially the primes are axceptional, the sensor is very good. In some conditions I find it a bit on the contrasty side.

If I had to have only one it would be the SL2 because it is so flexible.

[Mr.Q]

3 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I do get your drift. Entirely valid. People are different and see the world differently. This is a good thing.

I don't see *every moment* as precious. They're just moments. Either it's good enough with or without a camera or not at all. A photo is just a trigger for a memory. I don't need every second documented. I always have a camera with me but my average shot count is less than half a dozen for a family event.  Still I have a library of hundreds of thousands of images. I still take the vast majority of my *personal* photos with an M. Or occasionally a CL if I'm feeling lazy. I can track a bride walking down the aisle with an M90 at f2. Kids are no problem at f 5.6. I use my phone or Insta 360 for video. Not all my favourite photos are perfectly composed, perfectly exposed and pin sharp either. And from people who see my images of my family they don't need technical perfection either. I'm actually pretty good with a rangefinder. probably over 90% in a non structured environment and higher when I'm shooting with the SL2. I don't feel it holds me back. If I want an image the SL2 gets it, almost every time.

Personally, I'll take a couple of shots and then let the camera sit on my hip while I either enjoy a moment or participate in it. I have zero interest in using AFC to capture every precious moment. As for piling up the keepers. I get maybe 4 "keepers" a year. The rest are snapshots. Snap shots are awesome. I love my snapshots. I make a book every year. 2020 will be 46 images. That's plenty.

This thread needs pictures. One of my all time favourites. 8 years ago. M9 35mm. Advantages of always having a camera with you.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

L1000125.jpg by Gordon Cahill, on Flickr

An A9 is no easier to use than an SL2. So I don't see how it matters for others to use. Not that that's ever happened to me. Everyone either has there own camera or uses their phone. And I'm just not interested in their photos on my gear. Sorry.

I also don't take a beater when I travel. Cuba with an X1D. Burma with S1R's and SL lenses. I'm more worried about my gear in some European capitals than I was in Namibia. If I'm going to bother with anything more than my phone I want a camera I really like using. They're insured. Only the memory cards are really important. I have a Z7 that I thought I'd take when I travel. Fine camera. Great IQ. Good handling. Still take the SL2 or a 'blad.....

We have a different approach to this photography thing, obviously. And that's the way it should be. I'm not right or wrong. Just different. I'm glad the A9 works for you. If you need another I have one for sale....

Gordon

I respect your choices as well 👍

Yeah my wife and kids love using the A9 as well as my other gear. They're actually all good photographers and I  find their photos inspiring. Need to teach them how to edit though...

I don't need every second documented either but I'd like to get as many good family moments as I can, to be honest with you. I hand out albums and short clips (I know you don't shoot video but Sony tracking is infinitely better and easier than anything Panaleica) to family members every year and it's a bummer that I can't do that this year with covid.

As for using a beater, the X1d or Sl2 with their lenses are too big and clunky for offroading and shooting with one hand. Spraying and praying is the only technique in some of these situations, so yeah, drastically different approaches. As for your A9, I may take you up on your offer if mine goes flying off a cliff on my next outing 😆

[Mr.Q]

2 hours ago, tom0511 said:

Why not the M21/3.4? 

I ended up with the Sigma 14-24 and I couldn't be happier. Stellar lens.

[meerec]

15 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

And I don't own a cat. So I don't need to have millions of sharp images of my feline reacting to a cucumber.

My cat owns me. And he couldn’t care less for any cucumber I can ‘throw’ at him. I train my eye and my technique using very slow and deliberate shooting portraits of Max with my Leicas and Hassy. Cats are great subjects for testing gear, and photographers!  Haha 😂 

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