Eoin Posted August 8, 2007 Share #101 Posted August 8, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) And you'd get there to find they were sold out... Ever the pessimist eh! Mark, it's like the kettle calling the pot black . AFAIK you can pre order to have there for your trip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 8, 2007 Posted August 8, 2007 Hi Eoin, Take a look here Price increase M8 and WATE. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Knorp Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share #102 Posted August 8, 2007 This is on the 'Leica Berlin' website: Leica Neuheiten =50&tx_ttproducts_pi1[product]=2266#"] =50"]Leica M8 schwarz - digital=50"]10701 ACHTUNG: Preiserhöhung ab 01.10.2008 auf 4.795€ ! So it's not too bad after all, it's just for 2008 ! If only true ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 8, 2007 Share #103 Posted August 8, 2007 Surely they mean 2007! That's the €600 we were expecting, so why Leica UK want an extra €1470 is a mystery. That same web-site is also showing an increase for the WATE from €3500 to €4495 on 15 August. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted August 8, 2007 Share #104 Posted August 8, 2007 And you'd get there to find they were sold out... Last time I went through Schiphol (about a month ago) both of the stores in the airport had at least one M8 each in stock. Same was true of the last time I went past the Leica dealer where I bought my M6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted August 8, 2007 Share #105 Posted August 8, 2007 Hi There, in case you've been looking at the Leica UK price increase notice: Leica Camera AG - Advance notification I've been speaking with them, and there is a typo in the message, which should read: £3390 NOT £3990. Bad, perhaps, but not quite as crazy as it seemed. even I can do it (in title, sorry!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 8, 2007 Share #106 Posted August 8, 2007 And you'd get there to find they were sold out... No you won't - you can order in advance... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 8, 2007 Share #107 Posted August 8, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nothing in the Italian site too... but Italy is managed by a distributor, not a Leica branch like UK... surely different approach to price sensitive communications. I talked to my dealer this morning (hoping tha Leica case and a pair of filter have arrived...nope) : he confirmed me that the Itaian distributor has informed them of a price hike "for a next future", specifically involving the WATE too (they have one in stock...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 8, 2007 Share #108 Posted August 8, 2007 Bart-- You've been redeemed! Sorry, I didn't mean to imply a hoax. Was just the fact that only Leica bei Meister seemed to know about it. And someone knowing your interest in Leica could have faked an LbM newsletter to you. Just my questioning nature. No intent to blame or to shoot the messenger. Ironic that the veracity of the retailer who gets the news out before Leica is doubted. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted August 8, 2007 Share #109 Posted August 8, 2007 I was in my local Leica dealership when the rep informed them of the price increases. $5395 for the WATE. Ridiculous if you ask me, but then again there are people who routinely pay that for wrist watches..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted August 8, 2007 Share #110 Posted August 8, 2007 So is the price of the M8 going up in the U.S. as well then? So far, I have had my M8 for 6 days and I am feeling very lucky that apart from the annoying IR issue, it seems to be free of any of the early release bugs....just knocked on wood...... Good thing I have no interest in a "WATE" as you folks call it..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorp Posted August 8, 2007 Author Share #111 Posted August 8, 2007 Bart--You've been redeemed! Sorry, I didn't mean to imply a hoax. Was just the fact that only Leica bei Meister seemed to know about it. And someone knowing your interest in Leica could have faked an LbM newsletter to you. Just my questioning nature. No intent to blame or to shoot the messenger. Ironic that the veracity of the retailer who gets the news out before Leica is doubted. --HC No problem Howard, you are a gent. All the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 8, 2007 Share #112 Posted August 8, 2007 WATE speculation: Considering the size of the price increase, this may be the new version Tri-Elmar that Mark Norton earlier predicted. The original 16-18-21 was conceived with no recognition of the M8's IR issues. Luckily, Leica was able to make changes to firmware to handle the difficulties, but only with user intervention via a menu each time the focal length is changed. Leica despises kludges and inelegance. Therefore: Lenses ordered after September 30 will be of a new design, in which selecting the focal length will also adjust the mount, signaling to the camera which focal length is in use, and allowing the firmware to perform its cyan-drift calculations automatically. To do that, the new lens will have a new lens code. WATEs as now produced will continue to call up the special menu when the camera first becomes aware of them; i.e., there will be no change in function of the current lens. On the other hand, the lens code of the new design WATEs will tell the camera which lens is mounted and tell it to check the position of the frame preview lever to figure proper cyan compensation. The new version _might_ even carry the same product number as the current one, though that is doubtful. No one will lose in the changeover. People with the current version of the lens will have paid considerably less for the bargain version which requires more user awareness. People who buy new after October 1 will have the advanced version, better suited to photography on the go, but will have paid a premium for it. Leica will benefit because the introductory price of the new lens will allow for some additional profit margin as well as the increased cost of production of a far more complicated lens. For film users, there will be no advantage to the post-September lens. For digital users its advantages are clear, but the price advantage of the current version will be an important consideration. Thus, the used market in the original WATE will be strong, and owners of the current lens may well be able to sell their lenses for more than they paid. Again, that's all speculation. --HC ps--Boy, we should have started speculating on "What does it mean?" as soon as Bart posted the original note. Could have saved us 110 posts at least! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 8, 2007 Share #113 Posted August 8, 2007 Howard i luv ya but i doubt we will see anything like this but since you bring it up , I may just have to make a inquiry on it. No sure any code would automatically change when the focal length changes because nothing moves except internal glass. But hey it's certainly worth hoping for. BTW i find the WATE a non issue with changing the focal length after working with it for a short time it is really easy. Also i like the change in the firmware I asked for with regards to when turning off the camera and upon turning it on again it keeps the same focal length you left with. Also i would buy this lens at almost any price, it is that good so i would not shy away from it . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 8, 2007 Share #114 Posted August 8, 2007 Interesting speculation, HC. I find it tough to know exactly what they got wrong in the original pricing of the WATE which justifies a close to 30% increase now. Maybe they're just taking advantage of the demand for the lens, maybe they're finding it much tougher to make than expected, who knows? I'd certainly like to be able to hike my prices to my customers but sadly, they're a smart lot (well, they would be wouldn't they, buying from me LOL) and they wouldn't wear it. I do sometimes find I'm shooting with the WATE after forgetting to change the menu, so I get cyan/pink corners, so it would certainly be an improvement to have the lens communicate the selected focal length to the camera. It could be via the frame selector as with the old MATE or else it could be done by changing the code presented to the camera but both options would entail a significant mechanical re-design. It must certainly wrankle the Leica perfectionists that they thought they could get away with the camera not knowing the selected focal length for sensor vignetting correction only to find it was required after all once IR filters entered our consciousness. It's even possible they had an initial mechanical design which was replaced at some point by a simpler lower cost option. I have, incidentally, tried using the "official" filter solution now that I have my 67mm IR filter and don't like it at all. The one we put together here is much better for digital use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 8, 2007 Share #115 Posted August 8, 2007 4,700.00 EUR = 6,485.94 USD This makes the Zeiss ZMs look like a REAL bargain ... you can have the 15/2.8 (3900), 18/4 (1150) and 21/2.8 (1050) all combined for 6100 USD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted August 9, 2007 Share #116 Posted August 9, 2007 If price increases are true then it sounds like the M9 is on the way for next year. Setting expectations for the new model pricing whilst slowing down production of current model...lower unit sales at higher prices (30%). My opinion is that the increase is driven be the M8 having peaked and to keep NET income stable the price increase is applied, not uncommon. Possibly a good business decision as the unit sales will probably not be affected. Not saying I agree with it but fortunately I am not affected. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 9, 2007 Share #117 Posted August 9, 2007 No sure any code would automatically change when the focal length changes because nothing moves except internal glass. Guy-- That's exactly my point: Everything moves internally on the current lens. All the razzle-dazzle of changing information that was built into the 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar was brilliant planning and construction, but now since that lens is discontinued, the M8's internal switches that respond to the position of the frame preview lever have no purpose whatever. I'm suggesting the possibility of redesigning the WATE to trigger the frame preview switches as did the MATE. That would be a major design change and the lens would cost considerably more. (How else are you going to explain such a hefty price increase? Maybe "they just changed their minds"? Don't think so. ) Now, despite the fact that one of the forum's best contact people has just told me that he thinks I'm barking up the wrong tree, let me extend my surmise just a bit to offer a naming suggestion: The current WATE should be called the "fiddly WATE," since it requires user intervention via menu each time the focal length is changed. The one I have speculated about, the supposed new version to be shipped after the end of September, should be called the "later WATE" (more euphonious than "late WATE" and leaves the door open to future "yet later WATEs"). OK, OK, pure waste of time. But what should I do? Complain about framing? Or winding noise? I prefer speculating on things that just _might_ have an outside chance of happening. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 9, 2007 Share #118 Posted August 9, 2007 4,700.00 EUR = 6,485.94 USD This makes the Zeiss ZMs look like a REAL bargain ... you can have the 15/2.8 (3900), 18/4 (1150) and 21/2.8 (1050) all combined for 6100 USD. That puts it in perspective, but keep in mind the $6485 figure includes sales tax... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 9, 2007 Share #119 Posted August 9, 2007 Guy--That's exactly my point: Everything moves internally on the current lens. All the razzle-dazzle of changing information that was built into the 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar was brilliant planning and construction, but now since that lens is discontinued, the M8's internal switches that respond to the position of the frame preview lever have no purpose whatever. I'm suggesting the possibility of redesigning the WATE to trigger the frame preview switches as did the MATE. That would be a major design change and the lens would cost considerably more. (How else are you going to explain such a hefty price increase? Maybe "they just changed their minds"? Don't think so. ) Now, despite the fact that one of the forum's best contact people has just told me that he thinks I'm barking up the wrong tree, let me extend my surmise just a bit to offer a naming suggestion: The current WATE should be called the "fiddly WATE," since it requires user intervention via menu each time the focal length is changed. The one I have speculated about, the supposed new version to be shipped after the end of September, should be called the "later WATE" (more euphonious than "late WATE" and leaves the door open to future "yet later WATEs"). OK, OK, pure waste of time. But what should I do? Complain about framing? Or winding noise? I prefer speculating on things that just _might_ have an outside chance of happening. --HC Howard one of the issues of the MATE was the design and that it also caused a lot of mechnical problems from what leica mentioned. Besides one of the elements formula they can not get anymore there other issue was the mechanics of it and it was so complex. i did see on the tour a cut away of the MATE and i have to say it was prue genius in design but really complicated also. BUT i still love your thinking here and i would love to see it in reality on the WATE , just not sure Leica wants to get into that kind of design again. But you never know they are engineering fanatics. On the other hand i really don't know why the price has gone up, that is somewhat a shocker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dist Posted August 9, 2007 Share #120 Posted August 9, 2007 ...Leica despises kludges and inelegance. Forgive me for sticking my nose into other people's business (after all I don't have an M8) but this is really a good one. Or maybe you just forgot to stick an army of smilies onto that statement, in which case I apologize for the rant. So, L despises kludges and inelegance. Is that so. Well I dare say the whole M8 concept is a kludge to begin with, followed by many lesser kludges to iron out the mushrooming little or not so little problems. Internal switches that respond to the position of the frame preview lever in order to "detect" the focal length - give me a frickin break. And even that doesn't work with WATE. When you discuss such issues at great length, isn't there sometimes that little voice that says "rangefinder and digital simply don't go together that well, so maybe we're asking a bit too much"? I have been working with an M4 for quite a number of years and found myself on the brink of springing for an M8 but eventually opted out. Haven't regretted the decision so far. Time to don the flameproof suit. Have a go! Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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