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Price increase M8 and WATE


Knorp

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Wow. I didn't think demand was that high. It'll be interesting to see how the NA prices shake out--I think raising M8 prices by nearly $900 (!!) Canadian will kill the market here... as others have said, digital cameras tend to go down in price once launced and stabilised... not up!

 

Ah well. We'll see what happens to the retail price.

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Buying Leica glass starts to look like a good hedge for the ever decreasing purchasing power of the USD. Who remembers the exchange rates of the '60s, '70s, '80s etc of the USD as compared to the DM and the USD prices of Leica gear?

 

:D :D

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I think these price hikes are a bad move. Making the M8 the most expensive digital camera apart from the Canon 1dsII seems ridiculous to me. It is a great camera but at more than £3300 it is going to be very hard to justify. Image quality is not that different from a 5D or 1DIII.

 

As for the WATE I think it will virtually kill sales and move more folks to the Zeiss and CV offerings. Perhaps that is what they want since they don't seem to be able to make enough.

 

When I bought into Leica I did not expect this. Leica is going to look more and more out of step as prices for digital cameras come down over the next few years. Dumb dumb dumb.

 

They need more competition, come on Zeiss Ikon.

 

Jeff

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They need more competition, come on Zeiss Ikon.

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff

Maybe that much good will come out of it (it will encourage Zeiss to come out with a digital Ikon). There's clearly a market for it, and if Leica stick up the price of the M8, then they'll have a little more leeway to make a profit.

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Whoah! Is this camera going up to $5,600+ in the U.S. then?

 

Wow do I have brilliant luck with Leica. I got my 28 cron for $2,600 and my 50 1.4 Asph for $2150 last year, now look them.

 

I have had my non-back focusing M8 for about 40 hours now....I am starting to be really grateful I jumped when I did.

 

Leica, we need you to stick around for awhile and be a viable force in the pro arena, please don't shoot your self in the foot by pricing your self out of the market.

 

Every time an item reaches a new number in the price bracket, like getting well into the $5,000 territory, it drives away more potential Leica *system* users, dumb!!!!

 

Even at $4,800, I had to give careful thought to the M8, but I would not pay $5,600+ for this camera given the flaws that are not likely to be dealt with in this model...

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OUCH! With the Dollar in the dumper in relation to the Euro, this is going to hurt here in Texas.

 

The goods news for Americans is that taxes are low; the bad news is that the dollar's buying power is low when it comes to European-made goods. So consider buying quality American-made cameras, electronics and cars instead (oh wait a minute...)

 

For what it's worth, Leica has taken pity on us: Here's what the M8 prices should have been:

 

Old: $5789.91

New: $6617.04

 

Kind of makes you want to move your money overseas, doesn't it.

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Count me in the "say it isn't so" crowd.

 

 

But on the other hand, at least since the mid-'70s people have been saying, "Well, this time Leica has really priced themselves out of the market." And that hasn't happened yet. Well, maybe this time... :p

 

Maybe the new price reflects the new version of the camera with the improved T2? Or maybe the M8 will remain the flagship and they'll bring out a camera with wind lever and no auto cocking for 1/3 less?

 

 

:confused: What's next?

 

Wenn ich zum fliegenden Augenblicke sage, "Verweile doch, du bist so schön..."

 

--HC

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jono, sol,

I have no problem with a price increase in principle, and I agree that in relation to the MP/M7 and Canon/Nikon the M8 is very reasonably priced. Also here in Germany Leica swallowed the hike in sales tax that Frau Merkel introduced at the beginning of the year.

BUT 30% on a single product is excessive, if they priced it wrong to start with, whose fault is that!? certainly not the customers.

It strikes me as dreadfully poor PR, 'here are some nice new lenses for the cheap seats, oh and here is where we grab back from those with more money than sense...'

 

As a reminder, Leica's half year financial statement records over 55% increase in turnover for 'system cameras' due in particular to the introduction of the M8 and subsequent increase in associated lens sales.

 

A 30+% proce rise on top of that is just milking the mugs

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Those sales figures also showed that Leica are still struggling to make a profit, even with the M8 contribution. The profit margin on the M8 has been eroded by the cost of the filters - not just the cost to Leica of the filters themselves but the administration and shipping cost as well. I wonder whether they will stop that at some point. People buying the M8 now go into it with their eyes open - or should do - so don't need the filter cushion.

 

Even so, the M8 is already comfortably more than anything Nikon currently does and you can only imagine what the R10 is going to cost, if it ever appears.

 

BTW, HC, do you know what T2 is? I have no idea!

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I have been thinking to get an M8 and WATE. I am not a Leica user so not familiar with the price structure. But I assume price increase will affect US. Should I jump in now? Since WATE is out of stock everywhere in US. How do I pre-order to secure the price in US?

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Those sales figures also showed that Leica are still struggling to make a profit, even with the M8 contribution. The profit margin on the M8 has been eroded by the cost of the filters - not just the cost to Leica of the filters themselves but the administration and shipping cost as well. I wonder whether they will stop that at some point. People buying the M8 now go into it with their eyes open - or should do - so don't need the filter cushion.

 

Even so, the M8 is already comfortably more than anything Nikon currently does and you can only imagine what the R10 is going to cost, if it ever appears.

 

BTW, HC, do you know what T2 is? I have no idea!

 

Mark,

EBIT -6.7m last year, 5m this year!

and it is specifically the 1 increase on 1 lens to which I keep refering. Surely you dont think Leica plan to achieve their overall financial targets just by re-pricing the WATE?

Guy

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Here, hang about.

 

In a world where the cost of a decent London shotgun starts at $200,000. A bottle of Petrus at the Ivy $6000, a Breguet watch at $50,000 a pair of Prada jeans $700 and a broom cupboard in Kensington a bargain at $50,000 I reckon as 'bling' goes the Leica is dirt cheap, an M8 and three or four lenses $20,000 it's nothing. Let's face facts, there are more and more people out in the market place to which these prices are totally and utterly insignificant. Why shouldn't Leica take advantage....after all we are members of a profit driven society.

 

I'm not jealous. Indeed I am still saving up for the 250mg bottle of Balsamic Vinegar that I spotted recently in Harvey Nichols.....£125....$250 for a bottle of vinegar? Bet it would make the fish and chips taste a whole lot better.:)

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They really need to be careful on the M8 pricing as the market seems to be more sensitive to that then anything else and the camera body is Leica's ticket to an ongoing relationship with a new customer.

 

I hear users who have forked over 3,000 a piece for a couple of Leica primes without a whimper going on about how the M8 is so much more then the price of a 5D. Compared to film bodies these digital cameras will have a relatively short lifespan so customers will be upgrading much more frequently but only if they buy the first body. It's a bit early to be doing the victory dance and hiking prices on the entry ticket to Leica world.

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Here, hang about.

 

In a world where the cost of a decent London shotgun starts at $200,000. A bottle of Petrus at the Ivy $6000, a Breguet watch at $50,000 a pair of Prada jeans $700 and a broom cupboard in Kensington a bargain at $50,000 I reckon as 'bling' goes the Leica is dirt cheap, an M8 and three or four lenses $20,000 it's nothing. Let's face facts, there are more and more people out in the market place to which these prices are totally and utterly insignificant. Why shouldn't Leica take advantage....after all we are members of a profit driven society.

 

I'm not jealous. Indeed I am still saving up for the 250mg bottle of Balsamic Vinegar that I spotted recently in Harvey Nichols.....£125....$250 for a bottle of vinegar? Bet it would make the fish and chips taste a whole lot better.:)

 

 

Hermes tried pitching Leica as a luxury accessory and it didn't work out so well. The new management seems determined to sell cameras to photographers, so I don't think your analogy applies.

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I'd be willing to bet that they priced the WATE originally at close to cost to encourage purchases along with the introduction of the M8. Now that the new system is settling down they need to reprice to realize a decent margin.

 

Doug

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Buying Leica glass starts to look like a good hedge for the ever decreasing purchasing power of the USD.

 

I've said this but will bring it again ... sounds the Federal Reserve Bank will dump some gold and green backs on the market in exchange for Leica lenses and M8s, no wonder oil price was driven down too. :D

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Here, hang about.

 

In a world where the cost of a decent London shotgun starts at $200,000. A bottle of Petrus at the Ivy $6000, a Breguet watch at $50,000 a pair of Prada jeans $700 and a broom cupboard in Kensington a bargain at $50,000 I reckon as 'bling' goes the Leica is dirt cheap, an M8 and three or four lenses $20,000 it's nothing. Let's face facts, there are more and more people out in the market place to which these prices are totally and utterly insignificant. Why shouldn't Leica take advantage....after all we are members of a profit driven society.

 

I'm not jealous. Indeed I am still saving up for the 250mg bottle of Balsamic Vinegar that I spotted recently in Harvey Nichols.....£125....$250 for a bottle of vinegar? Bet it would make the fish and chips taste a whole lot better.:)

 

Annie,

if that is your 'world' then you are exceptionally lucky. That some people are able to afford such mindless consumption doesnt make it a good thing, at least not in my book. Having lived in Tokyo and seen the pathetic LV handbag culture I find the whole Überconsumer thing pretty sad.

But as I already said, my objections are to 1 price rise on 1 lens, which hardly puts Leica into the Überconsumer category.

By the way, if you are in that category try reading some Geffrey Sachs, his books are aimed at you and have some much more constructive spending suggestions :D

Guy

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BTW, HC, do you know what T2 is? I have no idea!

Nor have I, Mark. :( Best explanation I've heard is Transistor 2, but does the camera have any transistors?

 

I guess I need to put out my feelers. Will keep you posted. :)

 

--HC

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Nor have I, Mark. :( Best explanation I've heard is Transistor 2, but does the camera have any transistors?

 

I guess I need to put out my feelers. Will keep you posted. :)

 

--HC

 

Sure, there are numerous transistors in it, maybe they are replacing one!

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Hey--isn't the first one supposed to be free? :)

 

Oh--what do I know really about the market? I only gauge the fellow-feeling of pros who might try an M under the 5K mark but will be scared off above that.

 

For example, when I bought my M8 last year, the Canadian stores were selling a 5d for only a few hundred dollars less. Now that gap is thousands, and will be even more.

 

It's not that I'm saying the 5d is the same as an M8, but at the pro level you always ask yourself about alternatives and ROI (at least, you're supposed to--I dunno whether buying a Noctilux really makes sense, but I did it anyway).

 

But you can't count on people being crazy like me :) I just got the feeling of burgeoning interest in the M8, and I'd hate to see a small--but psychologically important--price increase ruin that interest.

 

Once people are hooked, they could make it all back in lenses ;)

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