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Price increase M8 and WATE


Knorp

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It's all done to keep the the riff raff from getting their grubby hands on a leica. too many concessions have been given with the pocket full of noise stuff and a brick,

 

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Luigi will be putting up his new vegetarian case at a higher price as well.......... lots of the buying celebs are becoming veggos.

 

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[From Leica's web site] (Steven) Lee has a professional background of more than 30 years in Product Management, Marketing and specifically senior leadership in Corporate Planning and Strategy. He joins from Best Buy Co., Inc., Minnesota/USA, where he was in charge of Emerging Business and Strategic Development as Vice President from 2000 to 2006. Prior to this he designed two global start-ups in computer electronics and the audio industry. His professional career started at the IBM Corporation where he had different positions in Marketing. Steven Lee's task is to reinforce the company's heritage and extend the business on a profitable base.

 

Presumably Steven Lee understands marketing and pricing at least as well as the average indignant Leica forum contributer.

 

The M8 was introduced mid-september 2006. Lee was appointed CEO in November 2006. The camera was already priced and shipping then, wasn't it? If so, the current pricing and sales projections/costing decisions were done by someone else?

 

I would assume that Leica would like the M8 to be priced as low as possible all things being equal. So I guess this tells us something about the "health" of Leica's current "profitable base". Unraveling Leica's recent history of bad business decisons must be the cause of a fair amount of forehead slapping in the CEO's office I'm thinking. CEO's are hired to make the tough decisions. I wouldn't have thought there would be glee at Leica in raising prices.

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Shocked reading this whole tread, and probably advancing the purchase of a M8 earlier than expected, two questions arises:

 

1. Has this new been confirmed by other sales representatives? So far this has been only one source: Leica bei Meister. (maybe I have missed the confirmation replies)

2. (This is very speculative) Can this be the prelude to a "Low-budget" Leica CM-Digital camera of about 2500-3000 euro and 8 Mpixel camera?

 

Boen

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It's always possible that this is one huge hoax since it has not been confirmed AFAIK by Leica...

 

 

If anything the price on the M8 should start to come down since by now all the bugs are worked out and the manufacturing is ramped up and the rush is over. You don't hear the cries of Where can I get a M8, seems you can get them anywhere now.

But then Leica isn't your normal everyday camera company.

 

I can see the price of the WATE going up.

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The new price of the M8 is getting very close to the medium format digital back, 22 megapixels from Mamiya. If you buy the Leica M lenses you will be in the same range as the Mamiya 645 system or more depending on how many lenses you get. However, Leica mechanical and material quality is like nothing out there and the depreciation value is lower than the other systems. Thus, it is harder to compare the Leica M system to the other systems; it goes beyond pixels for passionate Leica users.

 

The challenges for a working pro in the digital age is very difficult; keeping up with the technology and prices all the time. However, the challenges and compitition for these camera/digital sensor back companies are also very difficult as well. I like Leica a lot and wish them well so I can use their system. I wish that their prices would not rise but I cannot blame them for trying to stay alive.

 

I cannot forsee what new sensor will be coming out or how much the depreciation value of my system tomorrow. At present all I know is the combination of my medium format systems and the Leica M8 serve my purpose well. At the end of the day we have to ask ourselves what is the purpose of our gears and how each unique system can contribute to our photographic signature and can we afford to own the system that we love despite the pixels measurement.

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{snipped}It is digital, folks, not analog. The die hards will say their M8 will last 20 years. Maybe so. But not the software. You wont have anything support it unless you keep your current computer for 20 years. Leica will have to keep up with technology, albeit, at a slower pace than the rest. {snipped}.

 

I'm with you 100% on the logic of driving the prices up.

 

Again, in the pro community, it's true we can amortize some stuff (though explaining to the tax man why you need 3 different 35mm or 50mm M lenses, (for special look, for carrying comfort and for raw speed), well, that's a conversation I just don't want to have right now !!!

 

Comparing pro cameras though and the prices become interesting and important. So we'll see.

 

But on your computer point, the current M8 could easily be a workhorse for 10 or more years, but only if the hardware--not the software--keeps up. You'll need:

  • M8 compatible batteries
  • M8 compatible SD cards

to keep shooting, but that's it.

 

If a future computer can't read a DNG file or a JPEG well, then we're in a lot of trouble, since JPEGs have been around now for about 20 years (and TIFFs, which is essentially what a DNG is, for even longer!).

 

I still hope they're building more lee-way into the pricing and the effective price won't rise.

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In the UK, M8 = £2990, Mamiya = £7599. Hardly 'very close' <grin>

 

In the US:

I paid $4000 for the Noctilux + $4700 for the M8 = $8700 USD. (I can get the Lux instead to match the Mamiya price).

I paid $950 for the Mamiya AFD + 80 mm lens + $6500 for the Mamiya ZD back = $7,450

 

The more lenses I add the more the gap between the 2 systems in favor of the Leica M being higher; you got to love it otherwise it is difficult owning the Leica M system.

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Yes a three lens kit for the Mamiya (wide-normal-tele primes) will cost $3500 total, a little more then the price of one Leica prime. Medium format prices are coming down and soon will reach the level of the top of the line Canon stuff. There has been a revival of MF digital with a lot of pro's who went to Canon DSLR's when they went digital switching back to MF.

 

I understand Leica is in a tough position and Mr. Lee inherited a mountain of problems not of his making but there is a limit to what even the Leica market will bear in the age of digital. The differences between formats are getting a bit blurry as you can use an M8 or a 35mm DSLR to do work previously reserved for MF. Everyone is thrilled with the 'medium format' output from the M8 but what happens if 22MP medium format digital is going for less then Leica digital. That's a price position that would not make sense to me.

 

Generally you would put an MF makers 80mm 2.8 prime against a 35mmm 50/1.4 -you get similar depth if field wide open or maybe even more selective focus with the MF.

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Y

 

...

Everyone is thrilled with the 'medium format' output from the M8 but what happens if 22MP medium format digital is going for less then Leica digital.

 

I sure hope no one is buying the M8 expecting it produce "Medium Format" images(except maybe Holga!)

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How many f2 or faster lenses are there for the Mamiya?

 

Each systems has its unique contributing factors. Leica is always known for fast wide open lens performance even when comparing to other 35 mm system not to mention medium format. For example, the resolving power at wide open for a Leica lens is in general much more superior to the other 35 mm and medium format systems. As the format gets larger the more stop down is required to get the resolving power. However, the diffraction limit point for medium format lens are different from 35 mm system. Thus, every lens has its advantage and disadvantage and the value will depend on your style. In addition, 35 mm format and medium format are different in usage. The two systems are so different from optic and format and so it is hard to compare simply just f stop and lenses.

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Son,

 

Two points: a new 645 AFD is more like $10,000 (http://www.adorama.com/MYZD645AFD2.html), and I think you could probably get the Leica to work with a lens a bit cheaper than the Noctilux. Unless you believe that the Noctilux is the only Leica lens equal to the Mamiya 80mm?

 

Stephen, I really love the Noctilux and how I believe it works for me. This combination allows me to do thing that my medium format cannot do. I agree that there are other lens and will be cheaper as I mentioned if I get the 1.4/50 ASPH, the price would be about the same. If you need to get the Mamiya ZD back in the $6500-$6700 I can help you for the price quoted and you do not have to get it from Adorama. I got my Noctilux used and my Mamiya AFD I used so the price may varies depending where your source.

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