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Price increase M8 and WATE


Knorp

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I reckon as 'bling' goes the Leica is dirt cheap, an M8 and three or four lenses $20,000 it's nothing.

 

Well, "Annie", aka Brian, profile says male, maybe then a transvestite, has changed his/her tune. This is what he/she said in May:

 

Seriously though as a life time M user I am begining to rate the D2 more and more as a worthy successor. I can't/ won't consider an M8 as at least here in the U.K. I think it is vastly overpriced.

 

Maybe since then, Annie/Brian has won the lottery and re-calibrated his/her sense of values. My Troll-Alert Meter is bouncing off the end-stop...

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Hey--isn't the first one supposed to be free? :)

 

Oh--what do I know really about the market? I only gauge the fellow-feeling of pros who might try an M under the 5K mark but will be scared off above that.

 

<snipped>

 

 

 

You have hit an important point hear regarding that 5K price. That seems to be one of those magic price points where a little below is preceived as less expensive than just a little above it is seen as more expensive.

 

I hope Leica has some savy marketing people looking at the impact of these price increases and not just bean counters. Perception is everything in sales.

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These new prices do not make any sense! Even if demand is strong, the M8 is available and in stock at many stores (online and street). If anything, it might be a way to foster higher demand for the camera in order to meet some quarterly results...

 

In addition, a price increase was scheduled for July 1st 07, however the big online stores have not increased their price and the M8 still sells for $4800. So street prices might just not increase.

 

As for the WATE: I am so happy with my VG 15mm that I am not considering the WATE as an option anymore.

 

I could not get a Leica 28mm Elmarit, instead I got, after reading Sean's review, 2 VG (the 3.5 and the Ultron), and I am very very happy with them too. Leica has strong competitors, so there is a limit on how much they can increase prices.

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I have been thinking to get an M8 and WATE. I am not a Leica user so not familiar with the price structure. But I assume price increase will affect US. Should I jump in now? Since WATE is out of stock everywhere in US. How do I pre-order to secure the price in US?

 

 

If you really consider buying one, get in now! Since October 2006, the introduction month of the M8, the USD has devalued approx 10% as compared to the Euro. Leica will have to increase pricing in the US simply to compensate for currency exchange rate movements. And the price increase announced in Euroland, would come on on top of it.

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If you really consider buying one, get in now! Since October 2006, the introduction month of the M8, the USD has devalued approx 10% as compared to the Euro. Leica will have to increase pricing in the US simply to compensate for currency exchange rate movements. And the price increase announced in Euroland, would come on on top of it.

 

This really isn't a good excuse ... dollar rate against Japanese Yen has tumbled all the time yet you are not seeing any Japanese model actually even stay at their introduction price.

 

1y?usdjpy=x

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... In addition, a price increase was scheduled for July 1st 07, however the big online stores have not increased their price and the M8 still sells for $4800. So street prices might just not increase. ...

Samir--the price increase just hasn't worked its way through yet.

 

Just as Bart's note from Leica bei Meister said 'get your order in before Aug 15 and we will honor the old price,' any dealer who ordered before the July increase got cameras at the old price. New orders going in now will be at the post-July-first price; and when those cameras work their way into the market, the only ones available will be at the new price. :(

 

--HC

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...But you can't count on people being crazy like me :) I just got the feeling of burgeoning interest in the M8, and I'd hate to see a small--but psychologically important--price increase ruin that interest. ...

Yeah, what is it about folks like us? Someone like you making money off the equipment can at least amortize it; but what the heck am I doing with an M8 and lenses on order?

 

Funny--just occurred to me that 'a-mort-ize' literally means "to put to death." In this case, the camera is putting me at least through the ringer. :o

 

... Once people are hooked, they could make it all back in lenses ;)

Or at the very least sell at a loss and make it up on volume...

 

--HC

 

But I can hear the voice of Leica in stentorian tones saying, "No, no, no. One can properly compare the 5D only to the D200 and the Digilux 3. The M8 is rightly to be compared only to the D2xs and the 1D Mk III." Hmm. That logic doesn't help at all, does it? :confused: Particularly since Nikon already claims for their camera an "X-S" of features for the price....

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This really isn't a good excuse ... dollar rate against Japanese Yen has tumbled all the time yet you are not seeing any Japanese model actually even stay at their introduction price.

 

1y?usdjpy=x

 

 

Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong! The only major currency which weakened against the USD over the last 12 months is the Japanese yen!

Haven't Zeiss recently decreased their lens prices? And guess why they could afford this move, their lenses are manufactured in Japan (except 2 of them).

 

:D

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The new M8 price will be above even that of the new 1dIII. Also even digital backs are coming down to more affordable prices and that trend will continue. $5000 my well be a 'price point' as will be £3000.

 

To me Leica is completely out of step. Perhaps OK in the film world but for digital, I don't think so. Here in the UK M8s are now readily available of the shelf at Leica dealers. To me that would indicate a price drop to encourage sales.

 

Perhaps we will see a plastic Leica with 6mp but that wont be enough and the price will still be too high.

 

Jeff

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I don't know about you guys but I in NZ the M8 and M7 are about the same price (NZ)$6800. GIven the tech and development in the M8 this struck me as curious. Would have thought the M8 would have been dramatically more expensive!

 

Having said that, the price allowed me to buy the M8 : ) I couldn't justify the price of a new M7, as I don't shoot film commercially.

 

Re comparisons between M8 and nikon or canon, in my limited experience Leica has always been hugely more expensive when comparing feature sets.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

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This really isn't a good excuse ... dollar rate against Japanese Yen has tumbled all the time yet you are not seeing any Japanese model actually even stay at their introduction price.

 

1y?usdjpy=x

 

Just saw the chart you attached, which proves the opposite of what you are saying! I.e. it shows the value or price of 1USD expressed in Yen, and its increase over the last 12 months from115 to 124! Only very recently the Yen snapped back (see the recent downmove on the chart) because of carrytrade unwindings (discussed every day in the media).

I know it is not always easy with financial charts.

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Just saw the chart you attached, which proves the opposite of what you are saying! I.e. it shows the value or price of 1USD expressed in Yen, and its increase over the last 12 months from115 to 124! Only very recently the Yen snapped back (see the recent downmove on the chart) because of carrytrade unwindings (discussed every day in the media).

I know it is not always easy with financial charts.

 

My bad ... linked the wrong chart! :D:p

 

From the 5 year chart, you could see a sharp drop of dollar value yet the all Japanese model prices went all the way down.

 

U.S. Dollar to Japanese Yen Exchange Rate - Yahoo! Finance

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Leica has it backwards. Demand has peaked. The frenzied pace to get the M8 has probably slowed but there are still buyers. Supply has increased. Price should go down. But Leica is raising it. It will drive away a lot buyers who have been waiting for supply to come up. With fewer buyers, lens sales will drop, profits will go down. Oh, I know, says someone at leica, let's raise prices and make it up in volume. I don't get it. I will continue to sit and wait since I planned on getting one in the fall. Guess I will wait longer until leica figures it out and prices drop to stimulate demand. It is a great camera, but prices come down on technology, not go up. In another year, the leica M8 will be old technology. It is digital, folks, not analog. The die hards will say their M8 will last 20 years. Maybe so. But not the software. You wont have anything support it unless you keep your current computer for 20 years. Leica will have to keep up with technology, albeit, at a slower pace than the rest. A price increase is counterintuitive to me. Leica was dying on the vine with film since sales had slowed to a snail's pace. Sell no cameras, sell no lenses. That day will arrive again with digital if leica does not smell the coffee brewing. They won't make big profits on point and shoot digital or the 4/3's format. The money is in the lens. Drop the M8 price to $3,500 US and let demand drive lens price. Watch the profits go through the roof. Introduce the M9 in two to three years. Another profit run. Thats is the world today. But then again I could be completely wrong and admit it.

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Just a thought: In some ways the price is like a throttle. If the production and support people are overtaxed by high demand, the factory can either spend a lot to increase capacity and hire additional workers or just increase the price to throttle down the demand. Having a backlog is indicative of too low a price.

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Guest sirvine

Quality > quantity. Leica gets it, and the price increase reflects an emphasis on post-sales support and further refinement in lieu of moving units as fast as possible and telling customers with problems to jog off. Personally, I'm pleased that my camera just went up in market value. ;)

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Frank, everything you say makes sense.

 

It may take a while for Leica to 'wake up and smell the coffee,' as you said.

 

I remember in the 60's and 70's I met a number of people who kept putting off the purchase till later, and while they waited, the prices went up.

 

I'm not arguing that you're wrong about electronics; and I know mechanical cameras are a different beast. What I'm saying is that Leica may not have recognized that. And _if_ that's the case, then you might want to forget the logic and take that step into Leica's world. ;)

 

Whatever they've got in mind, it is certainly counterintuitive to a lot of us.

 

First some new lenses that make it look as if the effective price of an entry-level M8 is dropping, and then a 15% price increase on the body. ????

 

--HC

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Guest sirvine

I find it a little amusing that everyone told me not to buy an M8 because it would depreciate, and here we are six months later and full price on the used market is entirely possible. Also, I think the whole "digital obsolescence" argument is a fallacy. I have a Canon 300D that is 3-4 years old now. It works just fine. Sure, it's not the latest 1 series, but I still use it, just as I still use my IIIg. Will the Canon work in 20 years? Maybe. The only question is whether anyone will care enough to keep CF card readers and Canon RAW conversion that far into the future.

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I don't know about you guys but I in NZ the M8 and M7 are about the same price (NZ)$6800. GIven the tech and development in the M8 this struck me as curious. Would have thought the M8 would have been dramatically more expensive!

Gee, that's quite a deal for you!

 

Today's prices at B&H Photo (major mail-order/internet dealer) in US are:

M8 USD$4795

M7 USD$3495

 

--HC

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Gee, that's quite a deal for you!

 

Today's prices at B&H Photo (major mail-order/internet dealer) in US are:

M8 USD$4795

M7 USD$3495

 

--HC

 

I had included the NZ Goods & Services Tax of 12.5% in the NZ$6800 which, as a business, I can deduct.

 

Quick calculation with the NZ$ buying US$0.75 equates to about US$4550 not including the GST tax. More or less on a par with the US.

 

But it would seem the M7 is very expensive realtive to the M8 in NZ.

 

Thanks Howard

 

Scott

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Just a thought: In some ways the price is like a throttle...

 

My thoughts also.

 

Perhaps, as demand is high, they are going to run out of sensors sooner than expected.

 

So is it possible to speculate that :

The M8-2 with on-sensor anti-IR micro-lens filters won't be ready till PMA.:rolleyes:

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