jaapv Posted October 7, 2019 Share #21 Posted October 7, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don’t know about your pockets but it wouldn’t fit into mine in that configuration. The 18 mm is more suitable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Talk me into or out of the CL system please.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ECohen Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share #22 Posted October 7, 2019 35 minutes ago, jaapv said: I don’t know about your pockets but it wouldn’t fit into mine in that configuration. The 18 mm is more suitable. I guess that was a bad choice of words on my part....I know the size of the camera, I meant the "style " of shooting Kids and family, inside, Hi ISO. My question is about the responsiveness of the camera For example: The X2 is slow to focus on fast moving objects....like people Where as the D lux/Panasonic LX100 is lightning fast ....and better suited for inside "family gathering" Wondering about the CL and that style of shooting? I'm sure I'm over thinking this but when I ordered the X2, I'd hoped to use it for that style of auto shooting as well as Travel / landscape etc. I plan to set up a CL test drive ...But I was wondering the Forums experience? I'm very surprised that many of you are using it with manual lenses....Its designed to be versatile but it is an auto focus camera after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 7, 2019 Share #23 Posted October 7, 2019 Perfectly suitable IMO. AF is quick. The camera is responsive and intuitive, and high ISO amongst the best I have seen on an APS camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted October 7, 2019 Share #24 Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ECohen said: I'm very surprised that many of you are using it with manual lenses....Its designed to be versatile but it is an auto focus camera after all. I have two autofocus TL zooms for when I'm with my wife, and manual lenses for when I'm off shooting seriously....not that I don't use the zooms then, too. Just I get great joy out of a complete manual set-up and tend to even manual focus my zooms. Edited October 7, 2019 by bags27 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted October 7, 2019 Share #25 Posted October 7, 2019 I use it by choice for family shooting (6 grandchildren under the age of 6). Very responsive, and I prefer AF to rangefinder focusing for such fast-moving subjects at wide aperture. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 7, 2019 Share #26 Posted October 7, 2019 It doesn't matter to me that the CL also can work with AF lenses. Just because the CL can also be used with AF lenses doesn't mean that I want, need, or have to buy them when I have lenses that work perfectly with it already. I bought the CL body-only to fill-in for certain uses that I had been using the SL camera for, with M and R lenses I already had, after I sold the SL. I could see no point to spending thousands of dollars on lenses just to get autofocus when I already had all the lenses I needed/wanted. I have no problem using AF when it's available and when I feel it adds advantage to my photography. But it's not something necessary to me at all. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2019 Share #27 Posted October 7, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hard to do low light photos with slow lenses indeed. I need at least f/2 for my family pics, especially on the CL that i find too noisy at 3200 iso and above but it is not surprising for an APS-C camera. Most M lenses work well on the CL fortunately, at least 28mm, 35mm and 50mm lenses i own. I just miss a fast 21mm or 18mm but the available ones are too big for my tastes. Same problem since my first R-D1 in 2004. FF cameras are clearly superior from this viewpoint. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 7, 2019 Share #28 Posted October 7, 2019 Solution: Topaz Sharpen AI Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfweir Posted October 7, 2019 Share #29 Posted October 7, 2019 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Yes, one can go back and forth till the cows come home "too slow for this" "too heavy" "too big" "too noisy". etc. etc. yet at the end of the day I always come back to a line that I used in so many discussions, classes, or lectures about photography over many years... "Every decision we make in photography is a compromise; how much money we want to spend, how much weight we want to carry, how much time we wish to spend in the darkroom or in front of a monitor... Yes there are times I think that I should have taken more or less equipment, times I think I should have bought this or that, and times I think I perhaps made a mistake dumping all the m6's (4) and lenses (5) and gosh knows how many Canons (their fast L primes are superb btw ) yet I cannot say emphatically enough how pleased I am with the CL and what it will allow me to do most of the time. Now the above shot was shot with the CL and the 23mm Summicron 1/13 at f2. 3200 ISO and I'm one who has to twist my proverbial arm to go above 400 ISO. Processed easily in bridge and toned with my defaults. I don't have any noise reduction programs. So, take a moment and think back to the darkroom days and look at the shadow details, the highlights, and the mid-tones...and finally the composition.... Does it work? I think so...and that's after all the exhaustion that a daughter's wedding day brings to say nothing of more than a few single malts I'm more than happy with the CL and my compromise lenses.... So, don't overthink your decision too terribly much, it's a fine wee camera, warts and all - saying nothing 'bout the 18mm - not a focal length I'm fond of 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Yes, one can go back and forth till the cows come home "too slow for this" "too heavy" "too big" "too noisy". etc. etc. yet at the end of the day I always come back to a line that I used in so many discussions, classes, or lectures about photography over many years... "Every decision we make in photography is a compromise; how much money we want to spend, how much weight we want to carry, how much time we wish to spend in the darkroom or in front of a monitor... Yes there are times I think that I should have taken more or less equipment, times I think I should have bought this or that, and times I think I perhaps made a mistake dumping all the m6's (4) and lenses (5) and gosh knows how many Canons (their fast L primes are superb btw ) yet I cannot say emphatically enough how pleased I am with the CL and what it will allow me to do most of the time. Now the above shot was shot with the CL and the 23mm Summicron 1/13 at f2. 3200 ISO and I'm one who has to twist my proverbial arm to go above 400 ISO. Processed easily in bridge and toned with my defaults. I don't have any noise reduction programs. So, take a moment and think back to the darkroom days and look at the shadow details, the highlights, and the mid-tones...and finally the composition.... Does it work? I think so...and that's after all the exhaustion that a daughter's wedding day brings to say nothing of more than a few single malts I'm more than happy with the CL and my compromise lenses.... So, don't overthink your decision too terribly much, it's a fine wee camera, warts and all - saying nothing 'bout the 18mm - not a focal length I'm fond of ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/302043-talk-me-into-or-out-of-the-cl-system-please/?do=findComment&comment=3832704'>More sharing options...
ECohen Posted October 7, 2019 Author Share #30 Posted October 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, gfweir said: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Yes, one can go back and forth till the cows come home "too slow for this" "too heavy" "too big" "too noisy". etc. etc. yet at the end of the day I always come back to a line that I used in so many discussions, classes, or lectures about photography over many years... "Every decision we make in photography is a compromise; how much money we want to spend, how much weight we want to carry, how much time we wish to spend in the darkroom or in front of a monitor... Yes there are times I think that I should have taken more or less equipment, times I think I should have bought this or that, and times I think I perhaps made a mistake dumping all the m6's (4) and lenses (5) and gosh knows how many Canons (their fast L primes are superb btw ) yet I cannot say emphatically enough how pleased I am with the CL and what it will allow me to do most of the time. Now the above shot was shot with the CL and the 23mm Summicron 1/13 at f2. 3200 ISO and I'm one who has to twist my proverbial arm to go above 400 ISO. Processed easily in bridge and toned with my defaults. I don't have any noise reduction programs. So, take a moment and think back to the darkroom days and look at the shadow details, the highlights, and the mid-tones...and finally the composition.... Does it work? I think so...and that's after all the exhaustion that a daughter's wedding day brings to say nothing of more than a few single malts I'm more than happy with the CL and my compromise lenses.... So, don't overthink your decision too terribly much, it's a fine wee camera, warts and all - saying nothing 'bout the 18mm - not a focal length I'm fond of George Thank You for your reply and the photo. A picture is worth a thousands words. Point well taken. The CL will fulfill my needs. Sincerely EvanC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 7, 2019 Share #31 Posted October 7, 2019 Better solution: learn proper exposure technique for low light with high ISO usage. contrast goes up and dynamic range goes down with higher ISO settings, you need to meter slightly differently at ISO 6400 compared to ISO 100.. I seem to do pretty darn well with a 10mm f/5.6 lens in all kinds of light. There are obviously limits but I only rarely find myself out of sorts or with a poor quality capture. While I do have a couple of fast-ish lenses (f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8), it's very very rare that I'm not stopped down by 1 to 3 stops from wide open with any lens. That's where most lenses perform best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Wales Posted October 14, 2019 Share #32 Posted October 14, 2019 On 10/1/2019 at 8:47 PM, ECohen said: I love Leica for the simplicity. On the CL this 'simplicity' is at the cost of no IBIS or any form of stabilisation. If you can overcome that fine, if not it's a PITA. I find I need a monopod most of the time. It's a great little camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gfweir Posted October 15, 2019 Share #33 Posted October 15, 2019 On 10/7/2019 at 7:57 PM, ramarren said: Better solution: learn proper exposure technique for low light with high ISO usage. contrast goes up and dynamic range goes down with higher ISO settings, you need to meter slightly differently at ISO 6400 compared to ISO 100.. Interested as to what problem the "better solution" is addressing. Thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 15, 2019 Share #34 Posted October 15, 2019 I use my TL2 with 28 Summaron-M as a pocket camera (42mm fov). Compact, easy to use, lovely results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted October 15, 2019 Share #35 Posted October 15, 2019 My only complaint is that I wish it was FF. I usually pair it with a film M and that means adding a wide ..... BUT, its performance with M lenses and some Rs that I have is excellent. It took a bit to get used to A vs M but once you do, it becomes second nature. I have a Leica leather case on it because, well, it isn't an M4 and sometimes the weather isn't perfect and I don't want the knocks. That being said, as the saying goes, I took it to Victoria Falls and the spray finally conked it out, after over an hour, went back to the hotel took everything out, opened it up and the next morning it was working perfectly and has been ever since. That's it from. It is a great camera and its feel in your hand, the form factor, is more like having a film M than the digital Ms ..... BTW I used Jap as a sounding board a couple of years ago before going on safari and the CL delivered like a champ, the photographer . .... eh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 15, 2019 Share #36 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, gfweir said: Interested as to what problem the "better solution" is addressing. Thanks Reduction in noise and better photographic quality. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The Light On The Door - Redwood City 2019 Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6 ASPH ISO 6400 @ f/8 @ 1/6 sec Edited October 15, 2019 by ramarren 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! The Light On The Door - Redwood City 2019 Leica CL + Voigtländer HyperWide 10mm f/5.6 ASPH ISO 6400 @ f/8 @ 1/6 sec ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/302043-talk-me-into-or-out-of-the-cl-system-please/?do=findComment&comment=3836121'>More sharing options...
ECohen Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share #37 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) On 10/7/2019 at 7:57 PM, ramarren said: Better solution: learn proper exposure technique for low light with high ISO usage. contrast goes up and dynamic range goes down with higher ISO settings, you need to meter slightly differently at ISO 6400 compared to ISO 100.. I seem to do pretty darn well with a 10mm f/5.6 lens in all kinds of light. There are obviously limits but I only rarely find myself out of sorts or with a poor quality capture. While I do have a couple of fast-ish lenses (f/1.4, f/2, f/2.8), it's very very rare that I'm not stopped down by 1 to 3 stops from wide open with any lens. That's where most lenses perform best. As the original poster: Why would you assume that I don't know how to properly expose or post process? Or is it just a general "snipe"? Your photo " Light on the Door" very nice! That must have been shot with a very good camera.😀 FYI I do love that mock SWC of yours, that alone sold me on the CL Edited October 15, 2019 by ECohen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2019 Share #38 Posted October 15, 2019 I got rid of my CL & lenses after a few months, and bought a Q (to accompany my M10) instead. The CL is a lovely camera in many ways (especially the size & form factor) but AF is a tad slow by contemporary standards and the high ISO just about adequate. I also didn't really get on with the soft dials and inability to set a manual focus distance. The CL is best suited to less dynamic subjects, in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted October 15, 2019 Share #39 Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, ECohen said: As the original poster: Why would you assume that I don't know how to properly expose or post process? Or is it just a general "snipe"? Your photo " Light on the Door" very nice! That must have been shot with a very good camera.😀 FYI I do love that mock SWC of yours, that alone sold me on the CL Not a snipe at all. I see many people complain about poor quality at high ISO ... and most of it attributable to not understanding how to expose properly when the camera is set to a high ISO, or what to expect. So my first advice is to look at your exposure technique if you are finding this to be an issue. Sorry if that seems offensive; it is not intended to be. I've made exposures with the CL at ISO settings up to ISO 12,500 that are beautiful. And I'm pretty fussy. G Edited October 15, 2019 by ramarren 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUSe Posted October 15, 2019 Share #40 Posted October 15, 2019 Am 8.10.2019 um 01:57 schrieb ramarren: ... contrast goes up and dynamic range goes down with higher ISO settings, you need to meter slightly differently at ISO 6400 compared to ISO 100.. So how do you do it? Overexpose? Underexpose? Change the contrast settings? As I usually also have to cope with motion blur, I set the camera to 1/3f, underexpose if necessary and leave the rest to Topaz DeNoise. But one should think that correct exposure is crucial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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