Talk me into or out of the CL system please.

[ECohen]

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I love Leica for the simplicity.

 

I use an M for many things but when I wanted something light weight and auto focus I picked up an X2.

A fabulous light weight travel camera with lousily auto focus....Who knew .... I bought it new sight unseen.

 

I still use a Nikon when I need great auto focus and the luxury of Zooms ....But It weighs too much and I hate shooting with it.

 

I don't need FF IQ so I'm thinking about the CL. I was about to pull the trigger when I down loaded the instruction book.

Oh my, whats with the 2 unmarked buttons and all the hidden menus?

I know I need to get to the Leica shop and see exactly how it works. But I thought I'd ask this esteemed group first.

 

Is this camera intuitive like the M240 and the X2 ?

Am I thinking too much. Has Leica made this make sense for a shooter that wants simplicity?

We all know that the Japanese camera makers don't get simplicity.

 

From the instructions the CL just looks like chore to learn how to work yet another camera system?

 

I usually shoot in A changing the shutter speed or ISO....and I like to work quickly.

Does the auto focus work and work fast enough for shooting people?

 

I'm not one to chase the latest and greatest but I do want to replace the X2 and especially my Nikon FF w/ 28~70 2.8 zoom

 

You all are the best with advice ....Is this the right camera for me?

I hate to assume that Leica has it together because ....well they don't always.

 

All thoughts and opinions are appreciated

THANK YOU!

Edited October 1, 2019 by ECohen

[LocalHero1953]

If you want the simplicity and intuitive interface of a M, withe aperture, shutter speed and ISO dials, get a M. The CL doesn't have that. But it is still easy, with a bit of reading, to set it up so you have virtually the same interface, though you'd have to press one button before dialling ISO. Once I got my CL (and SL) my M240 languished at home, so I sold it. 

CL for travel and fun, SL for work. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by LocalHero1953

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[jaapv]

If you leave the CL at default settings, it is simple and intuitive. I didn't need the user manual at all to adjust it to my wishes and create my own profiles. To me, it is a modern reincarnation of the original Barnack concept. As such it replaces my M cameras as daily-use companion.

[DirkS]

You said, that you usually shoot in A changing the shutter speed or ISO....and like to work quickly.

You can do this in less than 5 minutes.

-1.  Push the button in the left wheel and choose "A" in the display/EVF (down in the left) by using the left wheel.

- 2. take the right wheel and choose your f:

(- 3. normally the left wheel now is for EV +/- 1,2,3. If you want you can change it in ISO you can do this via the menu.) 

The menu - structure is logic.

So it isn`t as easy as in the X2 (X2= only two wheels, one for f:, the other for shutter speed), but it`s easy enough to learn it in some minutes.

 

The pics of the CL are really better than those of the X2. You will see the difference. 24 vs 16 MPix are a lot. I would try to get the Leica 11-23 lens, too, it is great. 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by DirkS

[ramarren]

I bought the Leica CL to take the place of the SL which I'd sold so I could do macro, tabletop, and long lens work. The CL's quality and ergonomics, ease of use, and incredible image quality obviated any need (and use of) my Leica M-D typ 262. So I sold that one too. 

The Leica CL is a terrific camera for nearly any use. Yes, you have to learn a few things to understand the control paradigm, but it is simplicity itself once you get it.

I can't comment on AF speed or accuracy because I don't have any AF lenses; I use my Leica M and R lenses on the CL. They work beautifully with this camera too. 

G

[lct]

Define simplicity. For some people focusing an M camera is not simple at all. Let alone turning the shutter speed dial or pressing the front button while trying to take photographs. And what about replacing the battery or the memory card when using a tripod? What's simple is missing photos if you ask me. Just kidding but the CL is a monster of simplicity by comparison, i mean with manual lenses as i've no experience with AF ones.

[Marac]

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The CL equivalent to your Nikon 28-70 is f3.5 - 5.6, Happy?

every camera has a learning curve, the CL is not different in this regard, still happy?

if you answered YES to the above I'd say go for it.

if you answered NO to any of the above then Suggest you stick with the stuff you have OR go to a Leica store and have a play with one.

 

I have the CL with a few lenses including the zooms, and for what I do it's totally fine for me.

You have the luxury of being able to utilise your M lenses too with the help of an adapter but this will not, obviously, give you the M experience.

 

[Peter Wright]

I have an M240, M246 and a good set of M lenses, and I had an Olympus EMII which I used when I needed zoom and AF, or macro type work.  I prefer to use the M system for almost everything if possible.  I finally sold almost all the Olympus kit as I got tired of the complex menus, and the big, heavy (!) lenses.  I wanted a much more intuitive camera that would also be small and versatile.  The result was I bought the CL and the three zooms.  I also got the M-L adaptor.  Overall, I'm very happy with the purchase.  The zooms are not as fast as some of the Olympus PRO models, but they are a fine balance between speed and size, as well as providing excellent image quality.  I am sure the CL was designed with the M lenses in mind, as they work so well together.  The CL can be made very light by putting a 23mm or 18mm AF lens on it, or can be 'loaded up' with the longer zoom, in which case the accessory hand grip (and probably a thumb support) is a good idea.  Only you can decide what will meet your needs, but I would take the CL over Nikon FF stuff any time.

[ECohen]

Thanks for the replies.
I did have a feeling that Leica knows its customer......and I am it !
I do love the size and weight of the X2 and was excited the see the CL

Now to build a "my" CL system.....Hmmmmm

I am looking for this to be an almost everything camera.

And I do keep forgetting that I have pretty good kit of M lenses as well.

 

In search of the perfect camera is almost like the search for the perfect meal.

I sincerely appreciate sharing it with this very helpful and kind Forum.

 

Now I have to get time to get the the Leica store.....and see how fast Auto actually focus is.

 

Thanks to all

 

[ropo54]

I would certainly recommend the thumb support and hand grip.  I found some very reasonably priced Chinese products made by "Haoge" (Amazon or eBay). I find the CL much more comfortable with these additions. Rob

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Edited October 3, 2019 by ropo54

[jaapv]

56 minutes ago, ECohen said:

Thanks for the replies.
I did have a feeling that Leica knows its customer......and I am it !
I do love the size and weight of the X2 and was excited the see the CL

Now to build a "my" CL system.....Hmmmmm

I am looking for this to be an almost everything camera.

And I do keep forgetting that I have pretty good kit of M lenses as well.

 

In search of the perfect camera is almost like the search for the perfect meal.

I sincerely appreciate sharing it with this very helpful and kind Forum.

 

Now I have to get time to get the the Leica store.....and see how fast Auto actually focus is.

 

Thanks to all

 

The nice thing about the CL is that it sits in the center of the Leica ecosystem - being compatible with TL, SL, M and R lenses, having the feel of the M, Q and X and a functionality similar to the SL.

[ECohen]

I know once it gets in my hands I'll fall in love.

Small, light and an intuitive interface is important.

I'm so sick of using the Nikon and heavy zooms for auto focus.

We all talk about whats your favorite lens. On vacation or walks I take an M kit (3 or 4 lenses)

I choose a single walking around lens and that's what I make photos with for the day....simply because of the weight ( I know Its an M, to me its heavy)

The rest of the kit I leave in the room or the car ....... But I do need choice as I guess like many of you, I see in focal lengths.

 

I like the CL's 18 to 56 and useful Hi ISO. Now days only shooting for me I don't care about noise....or grain 😉

I do also like the CL60macro  and the W/A zoom as well.

 

I'll probably start with the 18 to 56 and an M~CL adapter.

 

I do frequently shoot at 2 or 2.8 so I hope I'm not frustrated with the 56mm @f/5.6 ......if  I am I deal with it.

I really want the CL to be an everything camera.....for the Art I shoot for my soul and for family and kids photos too

I have had many many different cameras for 50 years and I seem to always having to get used to something :-)

 

After years of choosing the camera for the shoot, I want to be a one camera system guy.

 

I do love shooting Leica for IQ and those simple menus.

 

Thanks Guys!

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by ECohen

[rob_w]

I wrestled with adopting zoom lenses when switching to the CL and eventually decided to stick with single focal lengths.  In my personal history I have decided that every time the choice arose and I'm glad I did it this time.  The TL23 and TL35 complement each other very nicely in lots of ways.  I look forward to adding a medium telephoto when a suitable one becomes available and perhaps a wide angle eventually.

I do have a full set of M lenses.  After an initial period of experimentation I decided against using them on the CL, unlike many here.  For me it changes the nature of the camera.  When I am photographing I want to be thinking about the picture, not about the camera, so the camera has to be utterly intuitive.  And that requires it to operate the same way every time without requiring attention.

The latter point is perhaps why many of us Leicaphiles dislike cameras with loads of features that require attention and are distracting.

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by rob_w

[ramarren]

6 hours ago, rob_w said:

...

The latter point is perhaps why many of us Leicaphiles dislike cameras with loads of features that require attention and are distracting.

 

For that, the Leica M-D typ 262 was perfect. I found it to be my very favorite M of all, it just did what I wanted. It was like making photographs with my M4-2 (my favorite film M) but with a digital sensor and a built-in meter ... Just right.

But the CL proved better for me in use. I keep the M4-2 and I sold the M-D because I'm not really given to keeping such expensive things sitting on the shelf when not being used. The CL's feature set is perfect for me, the camera is as unobtrusive in use when I'm doing what I normally did with the M-D as the M-D was, and the added features give me the rest of the things that I do with a camera very nicely. 

I like lenses that can be used on several different cameras and generally avoid lenses that age out when the camera that can use them is no longer the best pick. I also like specific lenses for their speed, size, and/or rendering qualities. So I've stuck with M and R lenses and use them on several different cameras and three different formats so far. That'll move to four different formats when the Hasselblad 907x gets here ... I already have the mount adapters for M and R lenses ... and it will be a fun bit of experimentation to see how well they work on 33x33 and 33x44 format sensors.

It's all in what makes you happy with your photography, to me. I use different capture medium, different cameras, and different formats to see the same things in different ways, and to express different things. The CL works very well for a very wide and versatile range of what I like to do. 

G

[Viv]

I am not the best person to give advice, since I got my CL with the 23mm only two days ago.

It was a nice deal - the dealer threw in the Leica handgrip, a nicer strap and an extra battery for free.

First impressions of the camera are very good.

[pmendelson]

Hi Evan - I just sent you an email about the CL. 
 

Peter

[geoffreyg]

The way to deal with the unlabelled knobs is to set it up the way as you want and keep it that way... and ignore all the other possible setups. I've got it for M lenses so aperture is always on the left, shutter on the right, ISO on the center button on the right. Simple enough. 

Compared to an M240, the quality is very close, the size and ease of use better. Somehow the CL goes everywhere, the M240 sits.... 

[ramarren]

2 hours ago, geoffreyg said:

The way to deal with the unlabelled knobs is to set it up the way as you want and keep it that way... and ignore all the other possible setups. I've got it for M lenses so aperture is always on the left, shutter on the right, ISO on the center button on the right. Simple enough. 

Compared to an M240, the quality is very close, the size and ease of use better. Somehow the CL goes everywhere, the M240 sits.... 

"...for M lenses so aperture is on the left, shutter on the right..." Huh? 

Not possible with M lenses on the CL. You can have shutter on the right or left and magnification on the other wheel in Manual mode, and you can have EV compensation on the right or left and magnification on the other wheel in Aperture priority mode. That's it. Aperture control is ALWAYS on the lens with an M lens. 

I put shutter on the left in Manual exposure mode and EV compensation on the left in Aperture mode. That way magnification is always on the right wheel. 

[geoffreyg]

whoops, my bad. The setup described was for AF lenses.... 

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[ECohen]

Anybody using the CL as a family pocket camera?

Shooting inside ,auto focus/ hi ISO with that slow variable "normal" Zoom?

 

My guess is, that this is the one thing the CL doesn't do well?

I know...... there is no such thing as an everything camera