mmradman Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1021  Posted October 22, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 3 minutes ago, Chaemono said: Yeah, whatever. All this waiting for SL2, are you bored already? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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nicci78 Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1022  Posted October 22, 2019 @mmradman In order to protect its shareholders, the CEO cannot give false information about its company. So whatever he said last summer is bound to be true : 1,200 worldwide  By the way 333K€/employee is quite low. Apple is making 2 millions $ per employee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1023  Posted October 22, 2019 3 hours ago, nicci78 said: 5000 employees?? Check your source.  Matthias Harsch stated in its latest interview that Leica Camera only got 1200 employees worldwide. Including Leica stores people And only a staff of 800 at Wetzlar. Which count also management, administrative and marketing team. Not many people left to build cameras and lenses.  Then you have to count the lay off of 80 people at Wetzlar. 40 AI specialists will be hired in California instead. Apple has 8000 engineers working on the iPhone camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1024  Posted October 22, 2019 vor 4 Minuten schrieb Exodies: Apple has 8000 engineers working on the iPhone camera. +1. You’re basically right but off by 0. See here: https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/20/10631330/iphone-camera-team-800-people 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1025  Posted October 22, 2019 I was about to say the same thing. 😉 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1026  Posted October 22, 2019 vor 40 Minuten schrieb nicci78: I was about to say the same thing. 😉 Apple should just outsource to Nittoh. Those 450 people can handle a little iPhone camera, too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1027  Posted October 22, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, nicci78 said: @mmradman In order to protect its shareholders, the CEO cannot give false information about its company. So whatever he said last summer is bound to be true : 1,200 worldwide  By the way 333K€/employee is quite low. Apple is making 2 millions $ per employee Revenue per employee for Leica is based on the publicly known annual turnover and employees numbers stated above.  I have no idea what exact figures for Apple are, all I know they sell a lot, happy user myself including 2 purchases this year alone both upgrade on old Mac and iPhone. We are comparing global computing technological giant with annual sales in millions of units to niche optical manufacturer with skill set based on grinding bits of glass and assembling handful of mechanical cameras and few more digital ones, selling at best in low hundred thousand units (across all product ranges) with handful of employees with IT skills. By weight IPhone cost similar as Leica camera, yet it sells in millions annually, enough said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1028  Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) vor 52 Minuten schrieb mmradman: By weight IPhone cost similar as Leica camera, yet it sells in millions annually, enough said. Exactly what I’m thinking. By weight, the 75 Noctilux cost less than a small tub of popcorn at the movies.  Edit - I forgot to mention, yet tubs of movie popcorn sell in the billions. It’s just not fair. 🤣 Edited October 22, 2019 by Chaemono 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1029  Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Apple figures and Leica ones are both public for FY 2018. Not totally comparable. But bringing Apple in the mix, is just to prove that a consumer hardware company can make many more money per employee.  Edited October 22, 2019 by nicci78 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1030  Posted October 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, nicci78 said: Apple figures and Leica ones are both public for FY 2018. Not totally comparable. But bringing Apple in the mix, is just to prove that a consumer hardware company can make many more money per employee.  I suppose achieving sale and making money Is less of an issue for Apple compared to Leica, there is never a shortage of a product when you need or want one.  Even on batteries Apple does well, if you need new one just replace the phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1031  Posted October 22, 2019 I found this brief article on LR which reprinted some comments by Erwin Puts to be an interesting comment on the current situation. Back in the 80's and 90's, I owned BMWs. They lost me after the E46 by increasingly focusing on the general market clamor to the exclusion of the enthusiast base. It strikes me that perhaps Leica is moving in a similar way. I certainly hope not, but, it would seem Mr. Puts thinks so. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1032  Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) At least this may take us away from debating how many employees Leica has. 🙂 Edited October 22, 2019 by bags27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1033  Posted October 22, 2019 I just don't get the moaning about lens availability. It took me precisely 24hrs to find a 50/2 SL a few weeks ago ......and it was delivered from Amsterdam in 24hrs. I could have had a 35/2 if it had taken my fancy as well. As school reports often say ..... 'must try harder' ..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted October 22, 2019 Share #1034  Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, bags27 said: I just wonder how many of those who are frustrated have been deprived of livelihood or significant pleasure because of that and how many instead are just focusing on using to the maximum artistic expression what has been produced--which are masterpieces of lenses. While I agree with your sentiment, I feel compelled to point out that a huge factor around being lured into a recently introduced camera system is shouldered by the availability of existing optics and those projected to be available. Hence why so many producers stoke the engine by issuing lens roadmaps. These promises are made to convince people to buy in and invest in a something that is not as yet fully formed. Buyers therefore do so on faith, both in terms of the presumed optical quality as well as the ability to actually purchase a copy some day. Moving on, as a result of a manufacturers failure to deliver on these projections, means the customer loses a significant amount of time and money which in turn fosters a sense of betrayal. So while I have sympathy for Leica and the difficulties it faces, I have equal sympathy for those who bought in on the basis of the roadmap who feel they have been misled, unintentionally or otherwise. It is difficult for all sides. Edited October 22, 2019 by Tailwagger 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted October 23, 2019 Share #1035  Posted October 23, 2019 If the sensor in SL2 eventually materialised as the Q2 sensor, it will mean that the Q2 is again released as the mule to the coming SL2 for Leica Engineers to further tweet the design before product launch. I cannot find any details on the Q2 processor but just a different processor than Q. I am convinced that the processor capacity and speed combined with software design would make or break a digital camera on user experience and application. I admire the believe and guts from Sony folks to launch the A9 based on improvements around the same image sensor as the A9. However such a move is way less glamorous than launching a replacement model with a double pixel count image sensor. I am not against more pixels on image sensor but one needs to understand it is the total hardware + software + optics to elevate the new camera model performance comparing to its predecessor. With more time spend waiting for the SL2 over the Q2 and S1R, I am excited to anticipate a nice balanced 43.7MPx mirrorless camera to take on the superb SL zooms and Sumicrons anytime this or coming week product release! September 24 was a decoy set by Leica to wet everyone’s appetite for October 24? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted October 23, 2019 Share #1036  Posted October 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said: If the sensor in SL2 eventually materialised as the Q2 sensor, it will mean that the Q2 is again released as the mule to the coming SL2 for Leica Engineers to further tweet the design before product launch. I cannot find any details on the Q2 processor but just a different processor than Q. I am convinced that the processor capacity and speed combined with software design would make or break a digital camera on user experience and application. I admire the believe and guts from Sony folks to launch the A9 based on improvements around the same image sensor as the A9. However such a move is way less glamorous than launching a replacement model with a double pixel count image sensor. I am not against more pixels on image sensor but one needs to understand it is the total hardware + software + optics to elevate the new camera model performance comparing to its predecessor. With more time spend waiting for the SL2 over the Q2 and S1R, I am excited to anticipate a nice balanced 43.7MPx mirrorless camera to take on the superb SL zooms and Sumicrons anytime this or coming week product release! September 24 was a decoy set by Leica to wet everyone’s appetite for October 24? Interestingly... I just traded my S1R for an S1 plus some cash... The high ISO on the S1 is incredible... I thought it was more important for ME to have better high ISO performance than 47mp. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillbeers15 Posted October 23, 2019 Share #1037 Â Posted October 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, Donzo98 said: Interestingly... I just traded my S1R for an S1 plus some cash... The high ISO on the S1 is incredible... I thought it was more important for ME to have better high ISO performance than 47mp. It certainly is welcome to have higher ISO. Just as a higher pixel image sensor would be nice addition in any new camera. However I personally would want a well balanced overall camera with higher pixel count and ISO than compromising one to gain the other. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted October 23, 2019 Share #1038 Â Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said: It certainly is welcome to have higher ISO. Just as a higher pixel image sensor would be nice addition in any new camera. However I personally would want a well balanced overall camera with higher pixel count and ISO than compromising one to gain the other. Agreed... 36mp would be nice... at least in my mind. Truth is 24mp is enough for me with really good high ISO. That said, the SL2 may tempt me Edited October 23, 2019 by Donzo98 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted October 23, 2019 Share #1039  Posted October 23, 2019 If I buy one, it'll be more the stabilization than the increased MPS, though they sort of go hand-in-hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted October 23, 2019 Share #1040  Posted October 23, 2019 24 minutes ago, bags27 said: If I buy one, it'll be more the stabilization than the increased MPS, though they sort of go hand-in-hand. The IBIS on the S1/R is a game changer. Such a great feature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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