wattsy Posted September 2, 2019 Share #21 Posted September 2, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 18 hours ago, sicko said: Can anyone answer me why the MP (and silver MP in particular) retains value so much better than the M-A? I think that is simple demand and supply. Most people (certainly those who don't inhabit forums like this one) prefer a camera with a meter. An M-A is a harder sell than an MP and sellers end up discounting further to find a buyer. Incidentally I'm not sure I've seen much evidence over the years of the silver MP retaining more value than the black paint MP. If anything, I'd say the opposite is more the case. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 2, 2019 Posted September 2, 2019 Hi wattsy, Take a look here MP vs M-A. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ianman Posted September 2, 2019 Share #22 Posted September 2, 2019 18 hours ago, a.noctilux said: why bother if you don't want to resell ? I've always found it strange the number of people wanting to buy their dream one-in-a-lifetime Leica and worry about resell value. 2 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted September 2, 2019 Share #23 Posted September 2, 2019 Just speculating ... but I'd guess there's quite a few M-A owners out there who realise after a while that a camera with no built-in meter is not for them. I couldn't be happier with mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted September 2, 2019 Share #24 Posted September 2, 2019 I've seen some ex-M-A users these last few years. They only had kept few months or years this "for lifetime Leica M-A" then moved to something else less "romantic" 😇. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicko Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share #25 Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) yes, it may seem strange to care about resale value on a system which i plan to keep my entire life, however- at least for me, and i'm sure some others- you can't deny that it's nice to know on some level that your investment in the tool is holding steady, especially when considering the fact that you've got the option at the outset to buy either camera for the same price. services like ebay give you the gift of foresight in a way if this kind of thing is important to you... the disparity, on average, between the black m-a's and silver mp's seems to be $1000-1500 usd... for cameras that cost only $100 apart new. anyways, i've decided to follow my heart in this matter and go with the camera i originally lusted after- the black m-a. i will add an mp next year- i think this is the ideal solution. i was worried about how easily the black chrome might wear out (since several of the examples on ebay have some wear after only few years), but i need to accept that these are tools meant to be used- not items to keep pristine on a pedestal. but please guys, can you tell me if an external meter like the voigtlander vc2 will be as accurate as the built in meter found on an mp? i have a sekonic l-358, but would prefer something i can keep on the camera i think. and i fully understand why some people would sell the m-a... like me, they perhaps went into the decision with rosy glasses, the idea of a fully mechanical experience appealing to the romantic inside of them, only to find that their internal light meter was lacking... i'm scared this will happen with me, but will do my best to not let it get to that. i don't think an mp (or even m7) is somehow less "romantic", but i understand why the use of batteries might inspire such imagery in some peoples minds. what then, are we to say about digital leica's or heavy forbid, dslr's!? haha! Edited September 2, 2019 by sicko Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted September 2, 2019 Share #26 Posted September 2, 2019 The MP meter is quite center-weighted, and has the advantage that you can see the area you are metering as you move the frame around. The VC meter has a field about like a 90mm lens, and so meters about the same as with a 50mm on an MP. But with the VC (which I also have for my ltm Leicas) you don’t easily see the differences as you move the frame around. As you change lenses the MP meter reads the same % of the central area, so adjusts for different FOV, unlike the VC. I actually prefer the M5 spot meter, which is a smaller central spot, better for selecting specific tones. However, as long as you understand how a meter covers, and get used to it, you can get good results with any of them - but I like the convenience of the through-the-lens meter of the metered M bodies. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted September 2, 2019 Share #27 Posted September 2, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) VCMeter II is accurate, but I don't use it as in-camera meter. It's not "better" than other meters that I have in many brands and periods (Gossen, Minolta Spotmeter, Sekonic, etc.), only it's tiny and fits in shirt pocket. In my use, I only take it out if I have a "tricky lighting" to be measured and "most important to think" how it would give in final image. Sometimes, in one day use with meterless M , I did not use the meter at all. Like all gear, take time to learn how to use the thing at best. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted September 2, 2019 Share #28 Posted September 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, sicko said: but please guys, can you tell me if an external meter like the voigtlander vc2 will be as accurate as the built in meter found on an mp? i have a sekonic l-358, but would prefer something i can keep on the camera i think. The Voigtlander VCII will not be quite as accurate but still within parameters. Remember that any meter is only as good as the person who uses it and that will come with experience. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 2, 2019 Share #29 Posted September 2, 2019 5 hours ago, ianman said: I've always found it strange the number of people wanting to buy their dream one-in-a-lifetime Leica and worry about resell value. I think it has something to do with the average age of a Leica M user and the value of their estate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 2, 2019 Share #30 Posted September 2, 2019 Don’t see the point in buying an M-A just to plonk a Voigtlander meter on top of it. Worst of all worlds! 9 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted September 2, 2019 Share #31 Posted September 2, 2019 With MP you don't know what it measures. With free mobile phone app you see what you will get. It might help you. If you using M for DSLR and still can't get how exposure works, MP will make it even worse. With mobile phone light meter application you have greater chance to learn exposure. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock Posted September 2, 2019 Share #32 Posted September 2, 2019 43 minutes ago, earleygallery said: Don’t see the point in buying an M-A just to plonk a Voigtlander meter on top of it. Worst of all worlds! Whilst I tend to agree, Leica thought it quite a good idea to market the Leica-Meter MR for a good many years and, of course, that would couple with the M-A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 2, 2019 Share #33 Posted September 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Matlock said: Whilst I tend to agree, Leica thought it quite a good idea to market the Leica-Meter MR for a good many years and, of course, that would couple with the M-A. True, but then they found a way of incorporating TTL metering within the body. If the OP is going to buy an M-A and stick a VC meter on top he would be far better off just getting the MP. IMHO. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 2, 2019 Share #34 Posted September 2, 2019 Conceptually, the M-A and MP are very different. I am not making a judgment call on your decision - I have two meterless cameras, a silver M-A and a black SWC/M. The MP meters off the white spot in the centre of the curtain - it is a centre weighted, reflective meter. If you’re comfortable with this, that is fine. It averages the central area of the image that hits the curtain. For most photography, this has proven to be predictable, reliable and accurate, as far as it goes. Once you’re used to it, and most film other than slide film gives you tremendous latitude, it’s very good. With the M-A, you need to make your own metering decision - (1) guess, using sunny 16 (not much point really, as meters serve a useful purpose - why not use one?); (2) take an average or matrix reading using a meter (why bother? the MP has one built in at no additional cost and faffing about); (3) embrace the zone system and use a 1 degree spot meter (the Gossen Spotmeter has a zone calculator built in, and I have found that very good in the past); or (4) take incident readings, using a handheld meter. What sort of photography will you be doing? For me, my M-A and SWC are all about using an incident meter - it’s a different way of thinking which I find refreshing and challenging after using my digital cameras with their complex and fancy reflective metering systems. If I was just going to use centre weighted, reflective metering, I’d go for the MP. As for colour, if you’re going black, see if you can get black paint. It looks fabulous when it’s new - glossy and rich - but it’s soft, so as you use it, the paint wears through to the brass underneath and develops a character which is yours alone. Then it is a camera for life! 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
monther Posted September 3, 2019 Share #35 Posted September 3, 2019 11 hours ago, sicko said: yes, it may seem strange to care about resale value on a system which i plan to keep my entire life, however- at least for me, and i'm sure some others- you can't deny that it's nice to know on some level that your investment in the tool is... I think as soon as you've reached this point in your thinking then your camera (not that you've bought it yet 😉 ) is already sold, whether it's next week, next month, next year. Everytime I see an f1 Noctilux for sale I think 'only 27 careful previous owners'. I like my M-A. There really aren't that many combinations for exposing film in a routine setting. If you start from one consistent point like always 400 film, always 1/125 or whatever suits you then you're just moving up and down the scale to suit conditions. Bring a meter if it's unpredictable light or a critical image. I have the VCII but keep it in a pocket rather than on the camera if I bring it, great little meter. Enjoy your new camera when it comes. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted September 3, 2019 Share #36 Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) Talking about "add-on metered M-A" we can buy something offered by Leica, a while ago, Hammertone kit M-A + Leicameter with Silver 0.95 Noctilux Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Life has good things to offer sometimes 😎 (wonderful kit ...not mine ! ) Edited September 3, 2019 by a.noctilux 5 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Life has good things to offer sometimes 😎 (wonderful kit ...not mine ! ) ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/300942-mp-vs-m-a/?do=findComment&comment=3812374'>More sharing options...
ianman Posted September 3, 2019 Share #37 Posted September 3, 2019 IMHO that "Hammertone" looks terrible... and having the silver lens on makes it even worse. Still, the photos it takes will be no different to my black paint MP 🙂 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted September 3, 2019 Share #38 Posted September 3, 2019 Yes, Ian, I'm with you that "wonderful kit" must be far from practical to use, but Leica's aim was (is) 50 units for collectors. I'm sure those kits sold out quickly. MP is more practical, as I've used for some years... For use I'd prefer of course my ex-MP + Summilux-M titanium 50mm Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! just seen some wear at the edge in this picture or 35mm lens with this MP 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! just seen some wear at the edge in this picture or 35mm lens with this MP ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/300942-mp-vs-m-a/?do=findComment&comment=3812422'>More sharing options...
Mute-on Posted September 3, 2019 Share #39 Posted September 3, 2019 @sicko have a look at this thread, it may help ... all the best! Cheers J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
romualdo Posted September 3, 2019 Share #40 Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, a.noctilux said: Talking about "add-on metered M-A" we can buy something offered by Leica, a while ago, Hammertone kit M-A + Leicameter with Silver 0.95 Noctilux Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Life has good things to offer sometimes 😎 (wonderful kit ...not mine ! ) Hammertone just doesn't do it for me either but what's piquing my curiosity is that lightmeter - was that factory made as a new item or were (the 50units) they refurbished old/original meters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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