MP vs M-A

[sicko]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Greetings- first post here. 

I am aiming to attain my first Leica shortly and am absolutely intent on it being brand new, thus only having two options; MP and M-A. 

At first I was absolutely certain I'd go the M-A route- the idea of it being 100% fully mechanical and so great looking in the black chrome sold me; that it had a slightly brighter viewfinder was a bonus. Then I checked myself and realized that I'd be absolutely lost without a meter. Shooting DSLR's my entire life, I've little to no idea about exposure. And although I shoot manual all the time, having the ability to view whatever I shoot and dial exposure into my liking is a luxury that's obviously not available on film. Sunny 16 is certainly learnable, but I'm sure there are tricky scenarios where even it isn't infallible. Of course there's also the option of carrying around a meter or mounting one on the hot shoe- not a problem. Now I'm sure several folks are ready to chime in with the beloved "MP becomes M-A when no battery" statement, but of course I'm well aware of that already. I really love the concept of fully mechanical, no electronics anywhere. I then read about the shutter advance issue plaguing some M-A's, which is truly worrisome when considering the cost of it (€4350!... for a mechanical 35mm body). Further, the whole plugged battery compartment thing cheapens it, imo- I'm sure others will agree. I'm also worried about how the matte black chrome ages- perhaps someone who's owned one for a while could comment? Some of the used examples on eBay have wear that I'd associate with much older cameras- is it easy to inflict damage on this finish? 

Then there is the issue of economics. I'm not strapped for cash, but I'm also not wealthy by any means. This Leica purchase is merely an indulgence that I'm treating myself to after some rough times. I've budgeted for either of the bodies and a nice lens, most likely a used Lux 50 ASPH. Why mention money at all? Well, I was searching through eBay listings (both current and completed) and noticed that MP's seem to retain value much better than the M-A, as well that silver MP's and M-A's tend to go for more than their black counterparts, sometimes by quite a lot. As I intend for this to be a life-long companion, I wish not to let such matters cloud my decision-making ability, but having the ability to see this information has slightly tainted my desire to go for the black M-A, which sells for substantially less than any of the other contenders. I wonder why this is- can anyone on here perhaps hazard a guess? Economics also play into this in another regard... the MP is only €100 more than the M-A, making the decision all the more tougher to make, since they are essentially priced the exact same. 

Of course I'm way overthinking this- it's just a camera body after all-, but I really want to make a decision which I'll feel good about and not regret. 

For those of you who own (or have owned) both, I would love to hear about your experience and how you found the overall quality of the two to compare. They are both handmade high quality German cameras, but there are undoubtedly still some variances in quality. I'm talking about more than the M-A having a metal ISO dial... that's irrelevant to me, frankly... I mean more broadly how did you find the two to compare? 

Thank you in advance- you are an ever-knowledgable lot whose wisdom I aim to gain on this matter.

Soon you will see me posting images taken on my new Leica. 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by sicko

[Matlock]

3 hours ago, sicko said:

Greetings- first post here. 

I am aiming to attain my first Leica shortly and am absolutely intent on it being brand new, thus only having two options; MP and M-A. 

At first I was absolutely certain I'd go the M-A route- the idea of it being 100% fully mechanical and so great looking in the black chrome sold me; that it had a slightly brighter viewfinder was a bonus. Then I checked myself and realized that I'd be absolutely lost without a meter. Shooting DSLR's my entire life, I've little to no idea about exposure. And although I shoot manual all the time, having the ability to view whatever I shoot and dial exposure into my liking is a luxury that's obviously not available on film. Sunny 16 is certainly learnable, but I'm sure there are tricky scenarios where even it isn't infallible. Of course there's also the option of carrying around a meter or mounting one on the hot shoe- not a problem. Now I'm sure several folks are ready to chime in with the beloved "MP becomes M-A when no battery" statement, but of course I'm well aware of that already. I really love the concept of fully mechanical, no electronics anywhere. I then read about the shutter advance issue plaguing some M-A's, which is truly worrisome when considering the cost of it (€4350!... for a mechanical 35mm body). Further, the whole plugged battery compartment thing cheapens it, imo- I'm sure others will agree. I'm also worried about how the matte black chrome ages- perhaps someone who's owned one for a while could comment? Some of the used examples on eBay have wear that I'd associate with much older cameras- is it easy to inflict damage on this finish? 

Then there is the issue of economics. I'm not strapped for cash, but I'm also not wealthy by any means. This Leica purchase is merely an indulgence that I'm treating myself to after some rough times. I've budgeted for either of the bodies and a nice lens, most likely a used Lux 50 ASPH. Why mention money at all? Well, I was searching through eBay listings (both current and completed) and noticed that MP's seem to retain value much better than the M-A, as well that silver MP's and M-A's tend to go for more than their black counterparts, sometimes by quite a lot. As I intend for this to be a life-long companion, I wish not to let such matters cloud my decision-making ability, but having the ability to see this information has slightly tainted my desire to go for the black M-A, which sells for substantially less than any of the other contenders. I wonder why this is- can anyone on here perhaps hazard a guess? Economics also play into this in another regard... the MP is only €100 more than the M-A, making the decision all the more tougher to make, since they are essentially priced the exact same. 

Of course I'm way overthinking this- it's just a camera body after all-, but I really want to make a decision which I'll feel good about and not regret. 

For those of you who own (or have owned) both, I would love to hear about your experience and how you found the overall quality of the two to compare. They are both handmade high quality German cameras, but there are undoubtedly still some variances in quality. I'm talking about more than the M-A having a metal ISO dial... that's irrelevant to me, frankly... I mean more broadly how did you find the two to compare? 

Thank you in advance- you are an ever-knowledgable lot whose wisdom I aim to gain on this matter.

Soon you will see me posting images taken on my new Leica. 

 

Don't take too much notice of the, alleged, shutter advance issues with the M-A, it is just that. I have both cameras and they both have their plusses and minuses. If you really want the M-A and need a meter then go for the Voigtlander VCII which clips in the accessory shoe and blends in very well. You mention the metal ISO dial on the M-A but it is only a reminder so can be ignored. I originally intended to go for the black M-A but eventually bought the silver chrome version which, in retrospect, was the right decision as it really looks the part. Hover that is a personal view.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[PaulJohn]

I had both and sold the MP. My M-A film rewind lever was smoother for some reason (the MP felt smooth until I compared it with the MP side by side. I have no idea if this is typical.

I also found that I didn’t need a meter even when shooting slide film. I usually deduct 3 stops for shadows when it’s sunny.

i have a light meter but now leave it at home.

professionals used to bracket exposures if not sure.

whatever you choose, enjoy in good health.

 

 

 

[ShivaYash]

Feel like this topic has been discussed relatively recently. Go for what the heart wants. I have both and they each have their own merits. 

[Mute-on]

Since you are coming from a DSLR, and with no experience using either rangefinders or external meters, I would overwhelmingly suggest the MP. 

As a new digital era photographer, there is no romance in SOLELY using sunny 16, or an external meter, unless you are absolutely wedded to the zen, free your creative instincts, at one with your craft, paradigm that some would claim to inhabit.

No meter was out of necessity, from the M2,3,4 era. From M5, we were fortunate to have the convenience of a reliable, inbuilt meter. Those from the M2,3,4 era would have been easily able to do without, but likely still appreciated the additional convenience and accuracy, particularly for slide film.

I use both MP and M2 side-by-side. The M2, much like the M-A, I expect, is a beautiful, romantic, and nostalgic photographic tool and experience. The MP is a far more practical and convenient photographic tool for my purposes. Having said that, I grew up with metered film cameras, and only much later, autofocus SLRs and DSLRs. Since reacquainting myself with my Leicas a few years ago, I have no inclination to pick up an SLR of any type, FWIW. 

All the best on your Leica journey! I have found it totally worthwhile.   

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Mute-on

[Viv]

For me, a built-in meter is very useful.

[jeffz]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I recently acquired a used MA. My experience is large format film, DSLR film and digital, Leica range finder both film and digital. The need for a built in light meter is a personal preference.

I carry a hand held light meter. I use it in incident mode. Any built in light meter will be in reflective mode and require it to be viewing a correct gray scale reading, just like the DSLR.  I suggest you look at how you will take light meter readings before you purchase. That said the MA is wonderful and the need to carry a meter is not a problem - for me. I like the no battery required which the MA facilitates. Once you get used to the film you shoot, exposure setting will be come second nature. The human eye and brain are wonderful as are the general exposure rule. You will be able to hit the correct exposure by looking at the scene. Also, I suggest, If you are going to buy the MA, buy a high quality hand held light meter that has incident, reflective and spot mode rather than limiting yourself to one that attaches to a hot shoe. Just my 2 cents and suggestions from experience in 60+ year of photography. 

[jeffz]

As far as lenses for the Leica. My kit is a complete set of Summarits. I found them to be small in size, light weight, and very very high quality. I have owned both Summicrons and Luxes. I suggest looking for both a good shape MA on the used marked as well as good shape lenses. My MA was a year old and mint. My Summarits all used and in great shape.

[a.noctilux]

Sicko, welcome to this forum.

I've had MP when I bought M-A.

I've used them along for a while, MP = M-A in my kind of use mostly negatives.

After a while I replaced the MP with second M-A end of story and beguining of new film experiences, one for color, the other for b&w or different lenses mounted.

If you want M-A, there is no second choice including MP !

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

And sometimes, I mount Leicavit-M on one,

then the other with Motor-M 😉

 

 

 

If not done,

please have a look in this "I love my M-A" thread

Edited September 1, 2019 by a.noctilux

[TomB_tx]

Starting in the early 1960s none of my cameras had meters (Pentax, Canon, etc. and Leica) and all of us used hand-held meters or judged exposure. We got quite usable pictures, and had the freedom not to over-meter for every shot - until the light changed, just shoot.

Then the Leica Rep came by shooting with us, using a Leicaflex SL. We noticed immediately how consistent his negatives were and how easily they printed, due to his experience using the selective-area TTL meter. After that I saved up and traded in my other cameras (except my M4), for an SL. Later added a CL and loved the spot metering, then later an M6.

Yes, you can get too obsessive about metering every shot, but once you break that habit the built-in meter can be ignored until you really need it, and it is a valuable convenience. If I were buying a new film M I’d go for the MP over the M-A.

[sicko]

10 hours ago, Matlock said:

Don't take too much notice of the, alleged, shutter advance issues with the M-A, it is just that. I have both cameras and they both have their plusses and minuses. If you really want the M-A and need a meter then go for the Voigtlander VCII which clips in the accessory shoe and blends in very well. You mention the metal ISO dial on the M-A but it is only a reminder so can be ignored. I originally intended to go for the black M-A but eventually bought the silver chrome version which, in retrospect, was the right decision as it really looks the part. Hover that is a personal view.

Could you kindly elaborate on the perceived plusses and minuses of each camera? Thank you. 

[Matlock]

35 minutes ago, sicko said:

Could you kindly elaborate on the perceived plusses and minuses of each camera? Thank you. 

I don't think there are any minuses, I prefer the M-A as it has a slightly better, uncluttered finder and I am happy to have no meter. If you feel that you need a built in meter then the MP is the one for you. Both are great cameras and, aside from the meter, are virtually identical.  

[a.noctilux]

 

MP/M-A

Differences are so tiny that many "non users" can't see/feel them.

As user, some details can be obvious and other details can be just we say "not important".

As user of the two kinds, I would resume my feelings:

- MP has meter and ... slippy leatherette (that can be replaced of course); and when battery removed it can be "seen as M-A" if some details differ

- I like the one-stage short release of M-A even if the two-stage of MP can be not relevant when we use to this

- the finder without red LED is kind of invitation to "better framing" without disturbance

- more complete framelines, the bottom lines mainly

- when I use M-A flat door, I appreciate more than the ISO dial protruding of MP

as seen here...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[earleygallery]

I’d choose an M-A and a handheld Gossen meter which allows you to take incident and reflected light readings.

[sicko]

Can anyone answer me why the MP (and silver MP in particular) retains value so much better than the M-A? They cost pretty much the same new (€100 difference), yet black M-A seems to do the worst on secondary market by quite a margin- enough so that it makes me reconsider my decision. That said, I intend it to be a lifetime instrument and I think if I remove the value retention from the equation I would most like to go for the black M-A with a meter on top. Boom. 

[a.noctilux]

I can't tell why, this is this day "demand on offer" and MP can be loved more than M-A, maybe.

I'm not aware that there are so many M-A on second hand market.

Can you link to them ?

For me it's only "market" valid now and those can change later on,

why bother if you don't want to resell ?

Edited September 1, 2019 by a.noctilux

[Jon Warwick]

5 hours ago, earleygallery said:

I’d choose an M-A and a handheld Gossen meter which allows you to take incident and reflected light readings.

I had an M4-P and successfully paired it for many years with a small meter (Sekonic L-308). It’d be similar set up with an M-A.

Even with my M7 now, I often use it with a Sekonic L-858 spot meter, which simply gives much higher accuracy and better control of exposure compared to the built-in Leica meter for spot (and incident) readings. 

[UliWer]

If a built-in lightmeter is no must  - why not look for the originals: M2 or M3 (for longer focal length). They have the same mechanics and handling as an M-A, and even if the 50+ years old camera needs an CLA and you add a good handheld lightmeter, you pay half of the price of a new M-A. 

[pico]

My two bits worth. I used 35mm cameras with no integrated light meter even after my peers got their first Nikon FTNs (I think that's correct) and for twenty years I was okay with exposures on 35mm. I used a Gossen hand-held.

After I got my first M7 I was gobsmacked by how consistent exposures were. Contact sheets were acceptable to any editor.

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Mute-on]

15 hours ago, sicko said:

Can anyone answer me why the MP (and silver MP in particular) retains value so much better than the M-A? They cost pretty much the same new (€100 difference), yet black M-A seems to do the worst on secondary market by quite a margin- enough so that it makes me reconsider my decision. That said, I intend it to be a lifetime instrument and I think if I remove the value retention from the equation I would most like to go for the black M-A with a meter on top. Boom. 

So you would rather have a compact camera, and then add bulk by sticking a meter on top, than have one with the meter inbuilt, and no extra bulk?

FWIW inbuilt meters were considered an advancement, not an unnecessary complication. Having to add one when it is avoidable is counterintuitive. If you know how to use a reflected light meter (as used in every camera with an inbuilt meter ever made) it is no worse than using incident metering. 

If you want a real Leica from the glory days of film cameras, buy an M2. They really don’t make’em like that any more.